Reference material supporting this talk.
Jane Hirshfield
Podcast :
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447?i=1000602612435
Article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/03/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-jane-hirshfield.html?action=click&module=audio-series-bar®ion=header&pgtype=Article