Today’s guest is David Mcllwaine
David is a seasoned entrepreneur and successful executive with deep experience in business growth, scale and delivering results. His real estate experience is vast--spanning over 20 years.
Show Summary:
In this episode David Mcllwaine shares his journey from corporate America to real estate investing, discussing his experiences of being downsized and how it led him to pursue real estate as a way to take control of his career and build wealth. He talks about the challenges he faced in the real estate industry, including losing over $1 million in earnest money. David also emphasizes the importance of not being displaced by technology and provides insights on the current economic cycle and upcoming challenges in the commercial property market.
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Intro [00:00:00]
Real estate as the next path forward [00:01:07]
Challenges and learnings in real estate [00:07:38]
The impact of reduced transaction volume [00:11:34]
Positioning oneself in the current economic cycle [00:13:36]
Breaking the golden handcuffs mindset [00:17:32]
Work ethic and agency [00:22:14]
Job loss and building wealth [00:23:12]
Closing [00:23:21]
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Connect with David:
David McIlwaine Facebook Personal Page https://www.facebook.com/david.mcilwaine/
MAC Assets Facebook Business Page https://www.facebook.com/MACAssets/
MAC Assets Instagram Page https://www.instagram.com/macassetsco/
David McIlwaine LinkedInPersonal Page https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-mcilwaine/
MAC Assets LinkedIn Business Page https://www.linkedin.com/company/mac-assets/
Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/break-your-golden-handcuffs/id1680781274
Connect with Sam:
I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/
Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com
SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f
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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:26:04
David McIlwaine
Breaking your golden handcuffs is really not just quitting a W2 job. In fact, it's far from that. It is recognizing how you can take your situation and tournament those handcuffs in a tournament of powerful tools. Welcome to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.
00:00:28:01 - 00:00:41:08
Sam Wilson
David McElwain is a seasoned entrepreneur and successful executive with deep experience in business growth, scale and delivering results. His real estate experience is vast, spanning over 20 years. David, welcome to the show.
00:00:42:08 - 00:00:46:14
David McIlwaine
Sam I love hearing all that with a deep baritone voice. Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:47:02 - 00:00:56:04
Sam Wilson
David The pleasure is mine. There are three questions I ask every guest who comes on the show in 90 seconds or less. Can you tell me where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there?
00:00:57:03 - 00:01:23:11
David McIlwaine
I started in corporate America running a sales force after 25 years in the advertising industry. I got downsized. 18 months later, I was downsized again after being the chief revenue officer for a tech startup, and I went through a divorce. So what happened is I could no longer live on an airplane as a high flying corporate executive carrying a tiny suitcase in a tiny briefcase and sitting in seat one day.
00:01:23:22 - 00:01:40:17
David McIlwaine
I had to figure out to make a living on my own. And I came to realize I came into real estate. Fast forward ten years later, I own a residential real estate brokerage and I'm a general partner in a thousand multifamily doors and on a private equity real estate firm helping investors to maximize their returns.
00:01:40:23 - 00:01:56:06
Sam Wilson
Oh, that's cool. I love that. I love that. What what were the things that took you for that said Hook that said, hey, real estate's the way. That's the next path forward after getting. Well, it was once, but twice. I mean, that's that's painful in and of itself.
00:01:56:23 - 00:02:20:02
David McIlwaine
It was pretty painful. Was that the day I got cut, the first time was a merger. And I lost my job the day I hit the quota for the upcoming quarter. And it was like my, I don't know, 13th or 14th quarter in a row. I had hit the budget prior to the start. Wow. So. So my team and I were pretty good at what we did.
00:02:21:03 - 00:02:57:00
David McIlwaine
Corporate merger. If you've been a top shelf dog, you know that a merger means job loss, huh? Period. Every single time. And from there, I went to Tech and I said, okay, I'm good up. Dust myself off and get back up on the horse. I did. I reversed seven negatives, quarters of revenue decline and lost my job the day after we closed on a series big round of funding because the CEO came in and said, Hey, Chief Revenue Officer, those 35 sales executives, you were going to hire those 35 reps.
00:02:58:06 - 00:03:24:18
David McIlwaine
We're not going to hire them because we paid off our debt. I said, what debt? And I'm the second in command and I didn't know about that. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I got to real estate because I realized that I could never again give away agency over my career to the vagaries of someone else's decision making.
00:03:25:02 - 00:03:44:18
Sam Wilson
Right, right. Yeah. Me. And that's powerful. That's powerful. And that's I mean, it's I can't imagine I've never lived in that world, but I mean, just hearing that this makes my skin kind of crawl like, wow, okay, so you've done everything you're supposed to do. You've done it, all right? You've hit home runs for the company, and they're like, Hey, thanks.
00:03:45:09 - 00:04:15:03
David McIlwaine
Yeah. And and it's happened. I watch it happen to my father in the eighties. I watch it happen to my friends. I watched it even happened to my former wife. I've watch it happen to people. Odd ends tonight. A thing. And I'm not saying that corporate America is bad. Hear me out. I'm saying that we as investors and entrepreneurs and if you're listening to this podcast, you're listening because you want to learn something, you want to invest in something, you want to grow something.
00:04:15:03 - 00:04:25:17
David McIlwaine
And all of us are seeking some knowledge. Right. And I say this because I don't want people being blindsided. Mm hmm. And it's painful.
00:04:26:03 - 00:04:35:22
Sam Wilson
Absolutely. Absolutely. You saw it. You saw real estate as the next thing to get into. What was what what were the steps in that journey that bring you to today?
00:04:36:24 - 00:05:03:09
David McIlwaine
Well, it's real simple. In advertising, the Internet destroyed a lot of vehicles and created a lot of vehicles. And I had seen technology displace realtors. I have seen technology displace newspapers. I have seen Amazon displace retailers. So I went through a through a moses in the desert period. And I looked at all kinds of different ways that I could meet certain criteria.
00:05:03:16 - 00:05:28:18
David McIlwaine
One of them is to never be dis displaced by Amazon or technology. That was a real core foundation of mine is I've got to have a product and an offering that the technology cannot take away. His introductions. People are petrified. I'm not. The second thing I had to do was find a way to build wealth for others, and that was really important.
00:05:28:18 - 00:05:55:15
David McIlwaine
I didn't want to build wealth for me. I got enough. I'm okay. But what I really enjoy is teaching others how to make critical decisions, how to think for themselves, and how to create agency and sovereignty in their lives. All right. So there's items one items, too, out of three. What products fulfill that shelter? Shelter does not get replaced.
00:05:55:24 - 00:06:18:10
David McIlwaine
We might replace around the edges, but ultimately, at the end of the day, every single one of us, according to Maslow, and he was right. We have a hierarchy of needs. Food, clothing, shelter. Right. So I'm not going to provide food. I'm not a very good farmer. I got a garden growing right now and I'm waiting for the yield.
00:06:18:11 - 00:06:39:03
David McIlwaine
My first thing was a couple of slices of dill, so I was happy to see that. But I can't feed the masses. Right? I'm not God. I'm not going to make it rain and I've done a rain dance and it didn't yield any fruit. So therefore, oh, shelter, I can help with that. And that led me to multifamily into housing.
00:06:39:12 - 00:06:53:07
David McIlwaine
So I started as an agent, went from an agent to a brokerage owner, from a brokerage owner and single family. I bought some investments. Then I discovered the power of multifamily and the power of leverage. And I jumped on it. Jumped in with both feet.
00:06:53:16 - 00:07:08:22
Sam Wilson
That's cool. I love that. And that, you know, and that that brings two things that satisfies you're never be displaced and then building your wealth for others idea. Tell me where you guys have a thousand units at this point?
00:07:09:10 - 00:07:11:20
David McIlwaine
Mm hmm. That's cool. 2000 doors.
00:07:11:24 - 00:07:16:12
Sam Wilson
I love it. 1000 doors. I'm sorry. Yeah, a thousand doors at this point.
00:07:16:20 - 00:07:17:10
David McIlwaine
What?
00:07:17:12 - 00:07:37:14
Sam Wilson
What has been that journey like? And where are you guys now? I mean, a lot of operators have gone penciled down. It's July of 2023. I get the year right that we're recording this. So where are you guys now in that process? Are you still actively buying? If so, what and where and why? Tell me. Tell me about that side of your business.
00:07:38:03 - 00:08:00:12
David McIlwaine
Well, it's been a challenge for sure. We haven't made an acquisition in over 12 months. We were in the middle of an acquisition in Q2 of last year when the Fed raised rates for the first time and then they raised rates by the BI. It hurts my heart to think about the number of percentage rate by 500 basis point over 350 basis points in 90 days.
00:08:00:21 - 00:08:44:23
David McIlwaine
Yeah. And we weren't able to perform on a contract and we lost over $1,000,000 earnest money. My partner's like, whoa. Oh, wow. Yeah. Whoa. And talk about great learnings. You know, it's it's a great series of learnings. And one of the biggest learnings that I came away with this was, okay, I can't control the Fed. And that might sound like a stupid learning, but the reality is that there's so much that people think they can control that is out of their control.
00:08:45:03 - 00:09:00:01
David McIlwaine
MM. But what I can do is make informed, strategic, calculated risks. And perhaps we hadn't made the right calculator at risk how they were.
00:09:00:18 - 00:09:01:19
Sam Wilson
I'm sorry. Go ahead. I cut you.
00:09:01:19 - 00:09:03:01
David McIlwaine
Off. No, go ahead. Go ahead.
00:09:03:22 - 00:09:17:13
Sam Wilson
What things? Looking back on that. Okay. Yeah. Hindsight's 2020, I think. Maybe not. All right, but. Okay, so you lost $1,000,000 in earnest money. Maybe you didn't calculate.
00:09:17:15 - 00:09:25:22
David McIlwaine
But my partners and I lost it. I didn't lose it all. I did lose a big six figure number. But yeah, we as a team lost over $1,000,000.
00:09:26:01 - 00:09:44:03
Sam Wilson
I don't like losing a dollar. I lost a $50 bill. We were on vacation last week and I had to take the kids down to the pool. And so I stuck a 50 in my driver's license in my back pocket, in my swimsuit, and then somehow are Urumqi. Urumqi and a $50 bill because I didn't want to take other stuff with me.
00:09:44:03 - 00:09:55:14
Sam Wilson
And I lost a 50 at some point, I'm like, Oh, crud, where'd that go? Of course, by this point in time, it's gone. I was upset about that, like, Oh my God, I'm an idiot. But it wasn't $1,000,000. I mean.
00:09:55:18 - 00:09:59:01
David McIlwaine
Yeah, well, losing money is easy, right?
00:09:59:22 - 00:10:03:02
Sam Wilson
Yeah, it is. It is like that. It's very easy.
00:10:03:02 - 00:10:30:00
David McIlwaine
Losing is easy. Learning from it is growth. Yeah. So a couple of the things that we learned, right? I can't I can't predict the Fed. I have to be much more sensitive to the winds of change in the investor community. The reason we fell apart was that we had a 1031 exchange that came to us at the 11th hour and said, We're not going to do it.
00:10:30:15 - 00:10:44:21
David McIlwaine
We'd already had three extensions, and that was about 18% of our total investment, and we didn't have enough time from the seller to reload that. Ten $31 amount. Yeah.
00:10:44:24 - 00:11:02:20
Sam Wilson
And and they had you by the throat. By the barrel. Yeah. With a million bucks on the line and they see that as like. So you're saying if I don't extend I get $1,000,000. Okay. Twist my arm. I don't extend. That's basically what happened.
00:11:03:16 - 00:11:28:02
David McIlwaine
Yeah. The reality is that they extended twice already and they were just tired of it. So I understand it. It makes sense to me. I don't like it, you know, and I can dig in a whole bunch of operational issues or I could dig into a whole bunch of emotional issues. And the lessons there are really powerful. Like when the Fed starts making moves, people do react.
00:11:28:20 - 00:11:31:21
David McIlwaine
The entire commercial real estate marketplace is seized.
00:11:32:08 - 00:11:45:22
Sam Wilson
Yeah, slowed down a lot. What is it? You're a year, what? 70, 75% fewer multifamily transactions? I think that's right.
00:11:45:22 - 00:12:14:15
David McIlwaine
I think we're I think we're at 15% of year over year transactions. Yeah. So it's fallen off by 70 to 80%. Right. Either way, you look at it. Right, it's a huge hole. And your listeners might be thinking, so what? Here's what that means to everybody. If there are no transactions, intrinsically, values are not known. The if the values are not known, it makes it really hard to secure financing.
00:12:15:04 - 00:12:43:24
David McIlwaine
Financing is the number one expense of every commercial real estate investment because we make money for leverage. So we want to use financing as a tool to expand our profits and your returns. Right. So if we don't have that that transactional volume, we don't have value, we don't have good financing numbers. Therefore, we also don't have any development or greatly reduced development.
00:12:43:24 - 00:13:08:04
David McIlwaine
As we have greatly reduced development, the pipeline for the future shrinks further. Homebuilders get scared. Condo builders get scared. The reason all of us have all this value in our home is that we are honest because there's a national supply of housing. There's a shortage. There's a national shortage of housing. Compound this with code and you've got all kinds of things coming at us.
00:13:08:16 - 00:13:34:11
David McIlwaine
So the lack of volume is not just about somebody not losing commissions or not making commissions. It really does affect a large swath of people. And it's jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. Right. Politics is local and politics is jobs. The economy is jobs. The economy is pay it. And all of these things have an impact and a domino effect for sure.
00:13:36:18 - 00:13:48:21
Sam Wilson
That they do. What are you doing right now, then, to position yourself to take advantage of this economic cycle or that wherever we are in this economic cycle, I guess I should say.
00:13:49:10 - 00:14:13:08
David McIlwaine
A of things are going on. I've been pencils down for a while. I'm putting a pic of my pencil back up. We are starting to see some normalcy. Lending is starting to slow, slowly return. The Fed has a requirement to lend so much to Fannie and Freddie and they need to hit those lending targets. So there will be some easing of lending constraints.
00:14:13:23 - 00:14:41:08
David McIlwaine
The DC hours, the debt service coverage ratios have skyrocketed now on what they require. So it used to be that you had to have a 1.2 times cash flow to pay your debt service. Now it's 1.3. Mm. So that's a 50% increase in the free cash you have to have in an asset to get lending. Right, which means you can't borrow the same leverage, which means you got to borrow less, which means the investor is getting smaller returns no matter what.
00:14:41:22 - 00:14:46:10
Sam Wilson
In the investor is getting smaller returns and assets have to come down in price.
00:14:47:11 - 00:15:07:11
David McIlwaine
Or the lend. It has to go up in the assets, have it come down in price, which is why the market is seized. Right? Because if you're selling one of your properties, you believe that it's worth X and the market says it's worth X minus Y, but you don't need to sell it. There's no compelling reason for you to sell it.
00:15:07:11 - 00:15:42:05
David McIlwaine
Why would you write? Right. And so part of that freight train is coming because commercial properties are typically mortgaged on five year cycles. And a lot of them in the last go go version of the teens had or the toes have been leveraged on 3 to 5 year floating rates. And those are coming due. So I'm starting to look at the beginnings of that freight train, doing shows like this to talk to people about our company and what we do and to get out the word that you can still make money in real estate.
00:15:42:13 - 00:16:05:13
David McIlwaine
We're also looking at some different asset classes, like self-storage, like some funds for oil and natural gas, build for build to rent and and townhomes and apartment complexes. So it's not completely void. It's just that were shifting our focus more to education right now than we are to acquisition because we don't want to acquire just to acquire.
00:16:05:15 - 00:16:13:01
Sam Wilson
Right. Right. No, no, you don't. You mean you could. You can you could easily just buy yourself a job and or a an albatross.
00:16:13:11 - 00:16:17:24
David McIlwaine
If you buy yourself an albatross and not the can you have a golf when you when you get a two out of five.
00:16:18:13 - 00:16:26:00
Sam Wilson
Right. No, not that. This is this is the what was the rhyme of the Ancient Mariner? Wasn't that the albatross? Not.
00:16:26:06 - 00:16:31:19
David McIlwaine
Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. I can't remember exactly, but it's a heavy burden on your shoulders, right?
00:16:31:23 - 00:16:43:14
Sam Wilson
It's a dead bird. They hang around the guy, right? Yeah. Because he shot the bird in the bird was right. And so then they shot it. They made they made the sailor where the dead bird around his neck. So that's the albatross around your neck reference like. Oh, great. And it's.
00:16:43:20 - 00:16:46:01
David McIlwaine
And it's heavy and sticky and a burden and a.
00:16:46:01 - 00:17:09:20
Sam Wilson
Burden. Right. So you might just get yourself an out. I've never talked about that here on the podcast before. Okay. On that nasty thought, let's keep moving. I do want to talk about something. Speaking of mindset, it's a mindset shift. One of the things I see a lot on social media from you is just that talking about your mindset, talking about getting I think your podcast is your best is your podcast called Break Your Golden Handcuffs.
00:17:09:20 - 00:17:12:00
Sam Wilson
Do you have a podcast called that or is that just the name of your.
00:17:12:17 - 00:17:18:06
David McIlwaine
That is correct. My podcast is called Break Your Gold Handcuffs Available Wherever you get your your podcast. Tell me a.
00:17:18:06 - 00:17:31:09
Sam Wilson
Little bit about that and then tell me what some of the things are you cover on that show, because I think this is relevant to kind of just how you're approaching your business. And then, you know, to a lot of our listeners, I think some of what you're sharing here would be incredibly valuable.
00:17:31:23 - 00:17:53:03
David McIlwaine
Well, I appreciate that, Sam. So the show is around the concept that we've all got handcuffs in some way, shape or form that we let shackle us. Yeah, the the break of golden handcuffs. The logic is that or the the traditional definition of a set of golden handcuffs is that you're going to have a job. You can't quit because if you quit, you lose money.
00:17:54:02 - 00:18:16:08
David McIlwaine
I had golden handcuffs where I was making so much money, I couldn't replace the money anywhere else. It wasn't that I had to wait to get paid a bonus. It was that I just couldn't walk away from what I did. I didn't love it, but it was awesome income, right? Or I've got a pilot who loves to fly, but that's all he does is fly.
00:18:16:08 - 00:18:40:06
David McIlwaine
So he doesn't want to do just being a pilot for 40 years. There's more to life. So one of my pilot friends started a cattle ranch on the side. I got another pilot friend who's a syndicator. You know, he got there's different things to do if let's say that you're a police officer and you love being a police officer, but you don't want to make that the only way you create a source of income, right?
00:18:41:03 - 00:19:10:08
David McIlwaine
So part of that is to recognize that breaking your golden handcuffs is really not just quitting a W2 job. In fact, it's far from that. It is recognizing how you can take your situation and tournament those handcuffs and in turn turn them into powerful tools. Maybe they become bracelets, maybe they become assets. So in my story, I made a plan of what was going to happen once I left corporate America.
00:19:10:23 - 00:19:36:05
David McIlwaine
Now I left involuntarily. So my plan was to completely executed. But had I not made that plan, I would have been in a whole different position. Hmm. I never missed a meal. My kids never missed a meal. I went through a really expensive, nasty divorce. No child support payment was ever missed. You know, my kids went to college on the college plans that I created during those handcuff days.
00:19:37:06 - 00:19:55:15
David McIlwaine
So I might not have had the perfect freedom at that moment. But now I have the agency over my day, my time, my decision making, my career, who and where I work. And the idea that about mindset is that we have choice. Yeah. And people don't realize that.
00:19:55:22 - 00:20:05:03
Sam Wilson
They don't realize that. And there's this idea that there's entrepreneurial people and then there's not entrepreneurial people. It sounds like you would dispel that myth.
00:20:07:01 - 00:20:37:17
David McIlwaine
The interesting question, I haven't thought of it like that. What I would say is that I was highly entrepreneurial and a publicly traded company and I was successful because I'm an entrepreneur, thought I would challenge that and say instead it's those who think and take action and those who process and take no action. Yeah, you can be an entrepreneur inside of Disney, in fact.
00:20:38:04 - 00:20:45:00
David McIlwaine
So there are some of the best jobs Disney has, right? When you're an Imagineer, you're an entrepreneur. Right?
00:20:47:08 - 00:20:57:14
David McIlwaine
And you can be an entrepreneur inside of a law firm and start a different practice. Or yet an entrepreneur doesn't have to just be their own company owner.
00:20:59:05 - 00:21:29:06
Sam Wilson
And I like that. I like that because you talk about breaking the mold, breaking the golden handcuffs. It's this idea that there is capacity in each of us, no matter what we're doing, to set things up the way the art of the design, the life that we want, and we're not necessarily just tied to doing this. I think it takes some training and probably maybe you'd agree or disagree with that, but I think it takes some training to get people outside of that mindset that this is the way I make an income or this is the way I provide for my family.
00:21:29:06 - 00:21:38:10
Sam Wilson
It's like, okay, that's a way of right and kind of opening up those windows for them to go, okay, there's there's some other opportunity out here maybe that you hadn't considered.
00:21:39:15 - 00:22:01:12
David McIlwaine
Yeah, my headset on my battery, my batteries on the headset just died. So I got to go. Sorry about that. But the whole thing here is that we do have that agent see of our decision making. I was at dinner last night with my with my kids. They're 20 and 19 college junior college sophomore. And we're talking about decision making.
00:22:03:03 - 00:22:31:08
David McIlwaine
And I asked them how they go about their decision process and what do they think we were talking about values and decision making and we talked about what values are different that they have than I have. And one of them was work ethic. Hmm. Okay, let's explore this. The work ethic wasn't ethic, it was ours. Hmm. What they learned was that their mom did a 9 to 5 work from home post-divorce pre divorce.
00:22:31:08 - 00:22:55:22
David McIlwaine
I did a 7 to 7 live on the road post-divorce. I work seven days a week, but it's not always 9 to 5. I went backpacking last week on Monday and Tuesday with my son because we had this window where he wasn't working and I wasn't working. That's cool. But I work Sunday and Saturday. Okay, so what? So that's agency.
00:22:56:06 - 00:23:11:23
Sam Wilson
Right? Right. That's cool. David. I love, love what you've done. Love how you've done it. Thanks for kind of bringing the insight to going from multiple mergers, which I wrote down here. Merger equals job loss, which I never really thought. Yeah.
00:23:12:12 - 00:23:17:19
David McIlwaine
It it's not if you lose your job, it's when do you lose your job.
00:23:18:11 - 00:23:38:17
Sam Wilson
That's yeah, that's that's that's harsh. That's harsh reality. But one that you know very, very well. And I love how you've then taken that the pain of that job in high paying job loss at that and then created your own mantra of never be displaced, building wealth for wealth for others. That's two things that you said there early on that are kind of your driving and motivating forces.
00:23:38:17 - 00:23:58:21
Sam Wilson
You've done it through multifamily. You've taught us the mistakes that you are some some lessons, rather you learned through losing $1,000,000 in earnest money which yeah I'm at the sit down after the show and think about that one that's that's hard and also also you know, breaking the golden handcuffs and the opportunities that lie out there for so many of us.
00:23:58:21 - 00:24:06:02
Sam Wilson
So I just thank you again for coming on the show today. I certainly appreciate it. If our listeners want to get in touch with you and learn more about you, what is the best way to do that?
00:24:06:21 - 00:24:20:00
David McIlwaine
You have two choices, Max assets dot com MRC assets assess etsy.com and there you can connect with us or you can follow my podcast, which is also on that website and that's break your golden handcuffs.
00:24:20:14 - 00:24:30:01
Sam Wilson
Break your golden handcuffs and Mac assets dot com. We'll make sure you put both of those there in the show notes. David, thank you again for your time today. I do appreciate it.
00:24:30:15 - 00:24:32:07
David McIlwaine
Sam, it's been a pleasure. Hey, thanks for.
00:24:32:07 - 00:24:34:07
Sam Wilson
Listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real.
00:24:34:07 - 00:24:39:15
David McIlwaine
Estate Podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe, leave us a review on Apple.
00:24:39:15 - 00:24:42:20
Sam Wilson
Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or whatever platform.
00:24:42:20 - 00:24:44:04
David McIlwaine
It is you use to listen.
00:24:44:15 - 00:24:49:19
Sam Wilson
If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract.
00:24:49:19 - 00:24:50:13
David McIlwaine
New listeners.
00:24:50:19 - 00:24:56:10
Sam Wilson
As well as rank higher on those directories. So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.
