Today’s guest is Adam Gower.
Adam Gower Ph.D. is a 30+ year real estate veteran with over $1.5 billion of CRE investment and finance experience who today builds digital marketing systems for real estate professionals who want to raise equity capital online (aka ‘crowdfunding’) and he
Show summary:
In this podcast episode, Dr. Adam Gower discusses his background in real estate and his transition to digital marketing. He emphasizes that while the medium may have changed to online platforms, the fundamental triggers that motivate investors remain the same. Dr. Gower shares his journey and how he now helps real estate professionals build digital marketing systems to raise capital online. He discusses the challenges of navigating the world of digital marketing and advises testing different marketing ideas. The conversation also touches on the importance of addressing investor concerns and maintaining open communication to attract capital in a challenging market.
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Intro [00:00:00]
Introduction and background of Dr. Adam Gower [00:00:55]
Building digital marketing systems for real estate professionals [00:03:12]
The challenges of digital marketing [00:10:51]
Applying traditional marketing techniques to online platforms [00:12:38]
Testing and iterating marketing ideas [00:17:44]
Changing Capital Raising Strategy [00:21:23]
Addressing Investor Concerns [00:23:31]
Regular Communication and Education [00:26:22]
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Connect with Adam:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gowercrowd/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/GowerCrowd
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/gowercrowd https://www.youtube.com/gowercrowd
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GowerCrowd/
Connect with Sam:
I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/
Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com
SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f
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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:
Adam Gower (00:00:00) - And the way that people interact with sales materials and marketing materials hasn't changed the same exact triggers. Will will motivate somebody, an accredited investor, to want to learn more and then to actually act and invest with you. Nothing's changed. Even though it's online, the the techniques are the same. What's cool about the tech is figuring out how to how to read the data, right. And understand which ideas you have that you're testing are working better than others. But apart from that, nothing's really changed then. Welcome to the How to scale.
Sam Wilson (00:00:43) - Commercial real estate show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.
Sam Wilson (00:00:55) - Adam Gower, PhD, is a 30 year real estate veteran with over $1.5 billion of commercial real estate investment and finance experience. Today, he builds digital marketing systems for real estate professionals. And for those of you that don't know, Dr. Adam Gower came back on the show. Oh gosh, it was earlier this year, April 10th, 2023.
Sam Wilson (00:01:15) - So we're catching you kind of right, mid quarter, first third of the year. Then we're catching the second quarter of the year. Adam. For those that didn't catch that first episode, there's three questions I ask every guest who comes on the show and I'm going to ask you to answer them again really quickly if you can, in 90s or less. Where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there?
Adam Gower (00:01:34) - Right. First of all, thank you for having me on. And I always I love being on these shows where the you know, the pre conversation is really mellow and quiet. And then you go into the introduction. Adam Gower is like, like it's like the radio voice.
Sam Wilson (00:01:51) - Absolutely, man, we got it. We got to make it entertaining for those that are listening. Otherwise they're going to put everybody to sleep.
Adam Gower (00:01:58) - I need to I need to take notes from your book, Sam, because I always do my introductions afterwards. But anyway, to answer to answer your question, where did I start? Okay.
Adam Gower (00:02:08) - I started hundreds of years ago, actually in the early 1980s. It was very interesting time to start because in those days, mortgage rates I remember Sam, when I first put money in the bank in the early 80s, I got 12% interest on deposit. Imagine that, 12% zero risk guaranteed money and and mortgage rates were pushing 20%. It was a very different time. Remember that might that might figure in what we're going to talk about later today. So that's where I started. I started pulling wires for an electrician and then eventually started raising money for a ground up multi-family developer. Second question was, you got a room? I've got a I've got a memory of, you know, whatever, a steel trap, a memory like a steel trap can only hold one thing at a time.
Sam Wilson (00:03:02) - And it's very difficult to get anything out of that trap completely. Exactly.
Adam Gower (00:03:06) - Yeah. It just. Just sits there kind of dormant. Weird.
Sam Wilson (00:03:09) - You start. Question number two is, where are you now?
Adam Gower (00:03:11) - Ah, right.
Adam Gower (00:03:12) - So spinning forwards, however many years that is unfortunately 40 odd years. I don't like to admit that it makes me seem really old. But anyway, so today, so what we do is we build a digital marketing systems and help people build digital marketing systems so they can raise capital online. We've focused exclusively on commercial real estate. Our clients manage probably over 35 billion AUM and have raised over $1 billion using our systems over the last few years. So that's that's what we do now. I just I got addicted to the idea of digital online syndication when it became legal. I raised over half a billion myself and it would all been in-person, sitting with people, traveling, having people travel. To me, it's just brain damage. So when it became legalized, I'm like, Goodness, that you could do it online. I just decided to switch and and that's what we do. It's what we do now. Yeah. It's I really enjoy it. It's like a hobby. I enjoy it so much.
Adam Gower (00:04:20) - Like a hobby. It's like.
Sam Wilson (00:04:22) - A hobby. Good for you. Yeah. I don't know that. Going to work as a hobby for me yet. So maybe I need to take a page out of your book.
Adam Gower (00:04:29) - Well, you know, it's what I tell my boys. You know, you got to do you? I've got, you know, three sons, and I'd tell him, you got to do what you really enjoy If you if you do what you enjoy, you'll never work. Right? It'll always be just joyful. And, you know, you just look spring out of bed in the morning and look forward to the day ahead.
Sam Wilson (00:04:49) - Oh, that's for certain, man. I've always wondered that about about people that watch the clock. Like when when 430 or 5:00 happens and I know I got to go hang not don't have to, but I get to go play with the kids because I know I can't leave all the kids at home with just my wife. So it's like, okay, I've got to wrap up work, but like, how in the world is it 430 or 5:00 already? Like, I never look at a clock and say, Gosh, I wish it would speed up.
Sam Wilson (00:05:11) - I'm always going, I wish it would slow down.
Adam Gower (00:05:13) - I need more time in my life. Right?
Sam Wilson (00:05:16) - I've never gotten to Friday afternoon. I'm like, Man, thank goodness it's Friday afternoon. I'm like, Is it really?
Adam Gower (00:05:21) - I got everything done. Yeah. No way. It says.
Sam Wilson (00:05:24) - Right ever.
Adam Gower (00:05:26) - Exactly. All right. So what was a question?
Sam Wilson (00:05:28) - Three questions. You already answered it, which is, Where are you now?
Adam Gower (00:05:30) - Oh, so that was question. Okay, good.
Sam Wilson (00:05:33) - Start. Where are you now? Oh, no, that's a lie. See, I can't remember my own question.
Adam Gower (00:05:36) - Where do you start? Where are you now and where you're headed?
Sam Wilson (00:05:38) - How did you get there? Oh, how.
Adam Gower (00:05:39) - Did I get that? All right, I will tell you that. But I'll connect the dots between pulling wires for an electrician and raising money for multifamily and what we do now. So the simple story is like this. So during the and it's important. It's a good question that you ask and it's.
Adam Gower (00:05:54) - Probably since the last time we spoke because of where we are in the in the cycle in the commercial real estate cycle at the moment. So the last major downturn and this is a major one. This one we're going through now was 2007, really is when it really started with a vengeance. And I in in summer of 2007, I sold everything I had actually really liquidated everything, just got out. And I ended up working for East West Bank. And one of the major actually the biggest regional bank in California. And they were really they had some challenges because they had, they had done, um, a lot of real estate collateralized lending. And a lot of those real estate deals were all those those loans were non-performing, right? People had stopped paying. There was a lot of problems. And so they brought me in to help clean the balance sheet by selling the notes. I did some workouts and then subsequently I ended up at I'll cut out a couple of steps, but I ended up at Colony Capital working on a $7 billion loan loan portfolio or portfolio of non-performing loans, and that was a whole different cycle as well.
Adam Gower (00:07:14) - Um, and um, and then when the, then when the market started to pick up. And around 2012, I started doing seed investing. Totally different. You know, I've made some money. The downturn actually treated me very well, and I started looking at these little startups. It was like a different world. I moved into a interestingly, you know, a lot of these things kind of dovetail into what's going at the moment. It wasn't a we work, but it was similar to a we work, it was a startup incubator. It was like this huge warehouse with open desks and open seatings, and you could rent a desk permanently. So I had all my stuff on my desk, but it was basically working in a warehouse. Sam I absolutely loved it. It was fantastic. I was surrounded by these bright students, you know, half my age and more. And I did some teaching at the university as well. But it was just the vibe in there and the energy. And you could hear people talking and doing presentations and walking around.
Adam Gower (00:08:23) - It was just really high energy. And so when the Jobs Act and I was investing in some of their little startups, I wrote some checks like, that sounds kind of cool, but they were talking a different language. I'd never heard this language before SEO and SOS and Google Analytics and you name it website. That was like everything was brand new. It seemed like rocket science to me, like it was completely impenetrable. Um, but the Jobs Act passed in 2012. So you said 90s maybe 90 minutes if you don't stop me. But the jobs that passed and it suddenly allowed sponsors just allowed anybody to technically sell securities online. What that meant was that you could raise money online. I just saw that and thought, Oh gee, this like my entire life has been chasing around, trying to find good investor leads and then nurturing them in person. And now I can scale that like absolute scale, perfect scale, right? You can reach everybody all or to everywhere, all the time online, instead of having to knock on doors like kind of literally knock on doors, Hey, is there somebody's home? Right? Do you want to invest? And so I started to learn the the art of digital marketing, of marketing online.
Adam Gower (00:09:52) - And I forgot your question again already, but I'll just kind of wrap up anyway. How did I get to where I am? And it just went from one thing to the other. In fact, I started some interest and I started with a podcast and, and I taught myself how to produce a podcast, how to build, which isn't trivial. You know, you're sitting there with lots of 800, how many ever episodes you've got on a big you've got a gorgeous mic and, you know, nice background. But when you started, you scratch your head, right? What do I do? Oh my God, how am I going to record? I'm going to clean up the audio. Is it going to be video? How do I get it out? Where do I put it? What is libsyn? How do I distribute? It's like a million different questions. So it's actually. Go ahead. It's like you don't. So I figured this out just like you did. And then I built websites and then I built marketing funnels.
Adam Gower (00:10:44) - Then I started putting them all together for clients. And that's what we've been doing. That's basically how it started.
Sam Wilson (00:10:51) - That's really cool. I think one one word that you used that is it's a common feeling as especially here recently on gosh, because we have our hands in the laundry business and then we have our hands in the RV resort business and, and then setting up all the marketing campaigns for those various businesses and hiring third party ad agencies to handle all of that online. You said impenetrable. Like, I look at this and literally I got the the the the I don't know what the wrong the word for it. You use the right word for it, but basically said, here's the plan of action. And like you said, they're throwing out acronyms, they're talking geofencing, they're talking this and that and the other and how we're going to I'm just like, Uh huh, yeah, okay. Just where do I can I just mail you? Can I just give me the credit card and just.
Adam Gower (00:11:38) - That's right. All I want is more business. Get it, get it, get it for me.
Sam Wilson (00:11:44) - Needs to be there. That's it. It's like, yeah, you know, I don't care if it's ten grand a month.
Adam Gower (00:11:48) - I actually find the whole process really interesting, actually. You know, what's what's particularly interesting about it? I'm looking at my as I look up here, I have books that my entire room is books, by the way, apart from this whiteboard behind me. But you know what we're talking about actually. These are tactics and techniques and strategies for selling and marketing and selling that have been around for a very, very long time. The reason I'm looking up here is there's a couple of books. There's Robert Collier. Book. This is amazing. It was written in 1920, I think. And then there's my life in advertising, scientific advertising. What is it called? Scientific advertising by John Hopkins. And there's a bunch of books like that. What's cool about it? Applied Business correspondence.
Adam Gower (00:12:38) - What's cool about is this stuff was written 100 years ago about the way that they did marketing direct mail where they'd send out literally send out mail to sell some of the things, you know, three by three feet of books as well. One of the things that's the coolest idea by three feet, five pizza box for your bookshelves, you know, whatever and pay on the drip and here's a coupon or whatever. But the tactics and techniques are exactly the same online. Why? Because human psychology is not changed now. The way and the way that people interact with sales materials and marketing materials hasn't changed. The same exact triggers will will motivate somebody, an accredited investor, to want to learn more and then to actually act and invest with you. Nothing's changed. Even though it's online, the the techniques are the same. What's cool about the tech is figuring out how to how to read the data, right. And understand which ideas you have that you're testing are working better than others. But apart from that, nothing's really changed then.
Sam Wilson (00:13:52) - Right? No. And that's and that's it. I mean there comes. What do you recommend to people? I mean, because there comes a point where we we all can't be experts in everything. I can't, I cannot and I don't have the mental bandwidth to become an expert in online digital, you know, paperclip marketing. I really don't. It's I know it's not rocket science. You know, as you said, it's you got to figure it out. But I don't have the the cognitive bandwidth to absorb and understand that. Right. Is that the gap you are filling in your business? Yeah, we.
Adam Gower (00:14:24) - We do that. I mean, the way to decide whether or not it's worth doing. Right. Just talking to you, it's interesting that you bring this up so we can talk hypothetically. We can talk very specifically. So being specific about your comment. So the way to do this is to you've really got to look at how much money you're putting in to the process and how much money you're getting out at the back end.
Adam Gower (00:14:48) - It sounds kind of, you know, a bit silly to say it's because it's so obvious, right? But that is what you want to do. So let's say you've got a laundry, a laundromat somewhere, and I'm not that experienced in laundromats, to be honest with you. But I imagine that you still you can do what you can advertise and you can get contracts, you know, from local sports teams. And there's all kinds of things that you can do to, you know, kind of scale the thing up. But you also want local students to know about that. You do coupons, promos, I really don't know. You put in tech, there's all kinds of stuff that you want to do, but you also want people to know about that, right? So whatever your total cost of advertising is, you want to be looking at what is the return on that spend, and the acronym is return on ad spend. So that's going to include however much you're spending on the advertising. By the way, this applies 100% exactly the same to raising capital for for equity.
Adam Gower (00:15:45) - Well, actually doesn't it's actually more technically it's harder for equity because in your case, you would you would say, okay, I'm going to run a campaign. I'm going to pay the agency however much a month. We're going to actually invest, however much we're going to invest in this in the you know, in the paid ad itself. I love emotional spending that let's say you spend 10,000 and I'm pulling this out. My. I have no idea how much money you make in a laundromat at $0.25 a pop. I don't know how that works. But anyway, let's say you spend 10,000 or $1000 on your advertising and your agency. You know, pretty much if you have made that money back, if you do the campaign properly, right, you could do a coupon, right? You do a coupon for a certain period of time and you can see how many people actually use that coupon. Was it worth the ad spend or wasn't it Right. Was it worth it? You've also got to look at lifetime value, right? Somebody comes in for the first time, they might only spend $10.
Adam Gower (00:16:45) - I don't know. Again, I've no idea. But now, suddenly, if they buy a membership, I don't know if you have membership, if you've got a recurring membership model and they sign up now, you know you've got this lifetime value. So you can start looking at it in that context and determine whether or not the campaign worked. The key, though, with any kind of marketing these days, as it was or even 100 years ago, was to test ideas. Don't be afraid of trying something. You know, I've just pulled an ad campaign that we've got on Facebook. It wasn't doing very well. All right. Most of my campaigns, you know, they run positive. I make more money than the campaign we're running. Just kill the campaign this morning. There wasn't losing money. It's like, you know what? Let's kill the thing. Can't be bothered and actually don't even want to revamp it. I'm just going to stop the campaign. But the key is to test and the chances are that you will test multiple different ideas and ways of let's get back to raising money for real estate.
Adam Gower (00:17:44) - You will test all kinds of different ways of raising money, finding accredited investors, nurturing them and converting them. And probably nine out of ten, those of those ways won't work. You know, nine out of ten ways that we try don't work. Oh, my goodness. But the ones that do, we double down on. And those are the ones that we roll out to our clients. So actually invest a lot of money testing different ways of marketing. Most of them lose. I know that fails, but the ones that win, those are the ones that we take to our clients. And then we we we double down on those.
Sam Wilson (00:18:18) - Right, Right. And that's and that's having that patience, that kind of that that kind of iterative patience to go, okay, we're going to put this campaign out there. We're going to see how it does. Do we like it? Did it perform? Yes. No. Analyze it. Start back over. I mean, that that process sounds like it's ongoing for you.
Sam Wilson (00:18:39) - I mean, really for the life of however long you're doing this.
Adam Gower (00:18:41) - Well, yes. But I think life is like that, isn't it? I mean, I was I just was reading your some of the stuff on your website before we connected. And you did multifamily and you did forget not mobile homes, but something else. And now you're focused on laundromats. Well, that is the same process, right? It's a process of trial and error. You try something, you work. It either does well, it doesn't work well. It sucks up your time. It doesn't suck up your time. You find that you've got a niche, something. So you double down on that and you just focus on it because it's the one that really worked for you. And everybody's different. So it's not anything. It's kind of got a little bit more esoteric, I suppose. If we talk about life, the universe and everything, but it is life. That's how you kind of deal with life. You test ideas, you test stuff, you go on vacation.
Adam Gower (00:19:29) - Let's why don't we try such and such? Never going back there. Right? You try it didn't work or you go somewhere and it's amazing. And you book the minute you get back home for next year, right? As life is like that, you just try stuff. And if it works, you do more of it. And if it doesn't, you move on.
Sam Wilson (00:19:47) - You move on. That's exactly. Yeah. I've got one of those vacation memories in my book here.
Adam Gower (00:19:53) - The good ones are the bad ones.
Sam Wilson (00:19:54) - It was a bad one. Unfortunately. I was like, You were never doing that.
Adam Gower (00:19:58) - I'll tell you something. I'm going to tell you right now. I went to a hotel. My kids were just at camp. I took my wife. I like to go to the you know, we kind of splurge when the kids are right. We went to this supposedly fabulous four star hotel resort. I figured we'd go away. I treat my wife, we spend a lovely time, kind of a staycation here in California.
Adam Gower (00:20:18) - The bloody room had duct tape holding the thing I could not sweat. Whose duct tape on the floor instead of a I couldn't believe it. I was absolutely disgusted. And I know this business. I know the owners. I know the management companies like guys, this is not cool. I got out and you know what they offered me? They came back. The manager, the hotel manager wrote and complained about this thing she offered me. She said, We'll give you a free night. But no, wait a minute. I'm just complaining. It's like going to a restaurant saying the food is dreadful. And they say, All right, I'll tell you what. Why don't you come back again? We'll give you some more dreadful food.
Speaker 4 (00:21:00) - What?
Sam Wilson (00:21:01) - That's. Oh, man, that's a very, very. Yes, very. Through the way you live and learn, though it's an iterative process. Just Hey.
Adam Gower (00:21:08) - Listen, hang on. Sorry. We're kind of going off on a bit of a tangent because I'm a bit hyper caffeinated, but what your what are your listeners want to hear about raising capital at the moment? Let's give them something really tangible and, you know, something you can use when you leave the call today.
Sam Wilson (00:21:23) - That's absolutely I'm glad we're making this segue because there's there's two things I want to talk about. One is how you are changing your capital raising strategy because capital raising has become immeasurably harder, I think, for everyone. I'm certainly seeing that in what we're doing. People are sitting tight. They're holding on to their wallets. They're just kind of going, Oh, crud. Like you said, maybe it was you that said this or maybe the last podcast Guest I think it was maybe the last one. We were talking a seven on a multifamily deal. Just isn't that compelling when I can get five and a half at the credit union, right? Like what? What are you guys doing? What are some strategies you're taking right now that are and again, not that we want to convince people to invest, but we want to give them compelling reasons to invest. What are you guys doing differently?
Adam Gower (00:22:12) - Well, yeah, I would say that it's not that you want to convince people to invest. You want to give people a solutions to the problems that they have, and that is if you've got a good asset class and you are able to make money, then you have what investors want.
Adam Gower (00:22:28) - You've just got to be able to articulate what it is that you have. That's that's kind of the way I think about this business, is that really, you know, a successful real estate sponsor has exactly what everybody wants, right? We've got ongoing income, passive income, which is just an IRS term, but you're offering ongoing income on your investment and to build wealth. Who doesn't want that, Right? Everybody wants that, Right. The challenge is that investors, everybody is skeptical. So they hear about you the first time and you say, here, I'm going to give you a passive income and build your wealth. That's what they want. But they're skeptical. They don't trust you. They want to be sure that you're not, you know, in a basement somewhere, you know, putting it in your pocket and whatever, buying Rolls-Royces all the time with their money. Right. Right. So you've got to get over that hurdle. Now, during the good times, it's actually not difficult because people are making money hand over fist and they're just looking for alternatives.
Adam Gower (00:23:31) - They're less skeptical because there's less bad news and in the news. Right. About what's going on. So during a downturn and this is also true, in fact, during good times, but particularly during a downturn, there are two things that you have to do, right? So these are practical with underlying this podcast to this point, whatever minute we're at here right now, this is something you can actually take away and use immediately. The first thing that you have to do is address the concern that your prospects have immediately. So whatever that concern might be, don't hide away. Don't hide that and pretend it doesn't exist. Deal with it immediately. Because if you don't deal with it immediately, no matter what else you say, the conversation that your prospect is going to be having in their own mind is, Yes, but what about this? And today and we know this from the advertising campaigns, we run for clients and also from a multi sponsor investor sentiment survey that we ran recently. Investors, including you, probably you as in you, dear viewer or listener to this podcast, are concerned mostly about protecting your money.
Adam Gower (00:24:50) - You don't want to be losing all your money when values drop. And and you're seeing the commercial real estate really hitting some some choppy waters. So the first concern you have is not to lose money, right? So when you communicate with sponsors I'm sorry, with prospects at the moment, the language you want to be using, language patterns you want to be using or specifically protecting the investment, protecting your investment. Don't use clever terms like principle preservation. You and I know what that means, but investors use a different kind of language and you always want to use the same language your investors use because you want to be understood. So protecting the investment is very important. So in your communications, this can be on any kind of ad campaigns that you have or any kind of newsletter you put out, any kind of pitch that you put out. Start with how you protect the downside. What are you doing exactly? How much debt are you taking on? Is it fixed? Is it a variable? If it's variable, why are you choosing to do variable today? What kind of leverage have you got? Have you underwritten your deal? Do you want me to stop? I see you.
Sam Wilson (00:26:09) - We are. We are in the final 30s and we got it. We got to hang hang it up, unfortunately. But this is gold. So I want you to finish out this thought because I think I will do our investors, but our listeners are really going to get something out of it.
Adam Gower (00:26:22) - Yeah. So this is really important. So. So you want to be addressing how you're going to protect their investment. That's the first thing. And then you can start or at least that needs to be the bulk of what you of your communication. The second thing that you need to do, communicate regularly. Oh, my goodness. Don't just not pitch all the time. Educate, talk about what's going in the market, what are going on, what are you seeing? How are capital markets? What's going on with interest rates? How are you dealing with them? What are you doing at cetera? Be don't pitch educate about these key issues. Those are the two things that we should have started with that Sam.
Sam Wilson (00:27:00) - Now think it's been great. Dr. Adam Gower, thank you for taking the time to come back on the show today. If our listeners want to get in touch with you and learn more about you, what's the best way to do that?
Adam Gower (00:27:08) - Gower crowd. Go to Crowd Gower. crowd.com. Sign up for the newsletter. You'll get an email from me on Wednesday with the latest newsletter. If you want to ask me a question, hit reply.
Sam Wilson (00:27:21) - Absolutely. Thank you, Adam. Do appreciate it. Have a great rest of your day.
Adam Gower (00:27:25) - Thanks, Sam.
Sam Wilson (00:27:26) - Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen. If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories. So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.
