Today’s guest is Chris Prefontaine.
Chris is the four-time best-selling author of Real Estate on Your Terms, The New Rules of Real Estate Investing, and Sell With Authority for Real Estate Investors. He’s also founder of the Wicked Smart companies and host of the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast. Chris has been in real estate for over 31 years. His experience ranges from constructing new homes in the 1990s and owning a Realty Executive Franchise to running his own investments (commercial & residential) and coaching clients throughout North America.
Show summary:
In this podcast episode, Chris Prefontaine shares his experience and insights in the real estate industry. He discusses the importance of being able to pivot creatively to find deals, reflects on his early days building homes on spot lots, and how he shifted his strategy after the 2008 crisis. Chris emphasizes the significance of surrounding oneself with experienced individuals and shares his approach to deal structuring, owner financing, and master lease purchase. He also talks about the potential of owner financing across various asset classes and introduces his book, "Real Estate on Your Terms."
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Intro [00:00:00]
2008 crash [00:01:01]
Deal flow [00:08:56]
Structuring deals [00:10:39]
Seller motivation [00:12:10]
The history of owner financing [00:16:58]
The versatility of owner financing [00:17:27]
The appeal of owner financing for higher-end assets [00:19:04]
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Connect with Chris:
Book request: https://wickedsmartbooks.com/sam1/
Email: chris@smartrealestatecoach.com
Connect with Sam:
I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/
Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com
SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f
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Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below:
Chris Prefontaine (00:00:00) - So there are always going to be people out there. There's a third of the properties in the United States, roughly, that are free and clear. That is a great pond to fish in. Always don't care what the market is. And I know this, the market can go up, down, sideways. Doesn't matter. You will always, always have enough deal to come across during any market as long as you know how to pivot creatively. And that's what we do.
Sam Wilson (00:00:20) - Welcome to the How to scale commercial real estate show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big. Chris Prefontaine is a four time best selling author. He's also founder of the Wicked Smart Companies and host of the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast. He's been in real estate for over 31 years. Chris, welcome to the show.
Chris Prefontaine (00:00:47) - Thanks, Sam. Glad to be here. Hope we can impart some some nuggets here while we chat.
Sam Wilson (00:00:51) - Absolutely. I'm looking forward to it.
Sam Wilson (00:00:52) - Chris There are three questions I ask every guest who comes on the show in 90s or less. Can you tell me where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there?
Chris Prefontaine (00:01:01) - Um, started in 1991 by building homes on spot lots where the owner would wait for the money, the vendors would wait for the money. So we were doing creative way back then in my 20s. Um, we, um, we pivoted big time after the 2008 crash and started saying, okay, no more signing on bank loans, no more pledging cash. We buy everything today. Owner financing subject to existing financing. All these projects, you can do any asset class with any one of those. And we teach that not only we do it ourselves, we teach that all around North America.
Sam Wilson (00:01:33) - That is wild. So I've never heard the term spot lot, forgive me, 800 and some odd episodes and ten years in the business. I don't even know what that is. Can you define that?
Chris Prefontaine (00:01:41) - Spot lots.
Chris Prefontaine (00:01:42) - Yeah. Meaning sort of infill lots. Where you come in a situation, there might be one lot left or, you know, someone has a lot next to their house they can subdivide. We did that and I was naive enough in my early 20s to go to the owners and say, Look, we're going to build a house and go to the vendors and say we're going to build a house. But you guys all get paid when it closes in like four months. And they all said, yes, the market was tough then, but I look back and say, Wow, I don't know if I'd ask that now, but we did it. We did like 100 homes.
Sam Wilson (00:02:05) - That's crazy. Yeah, I'm not even sure I would have the courage to to look at a contractor in the eye and say, Hey, buddy, listen, four months from now, you'll get paid.
Chris Prefontaine (00:02:14) - But I guess it's so different. I think back. I remember. I remember I had a eyeball with the lumber supplier and he chuckled.
Chris Prefontaine (00:02:20) - But then he did it. So, you know, it's funny.
Sam Wilson (00:02:22) - That's wild. Okay, so you work that strategy. I'm sure there's a lot of other things from 1991 through 2008. And it sounds like in your story there, there was potentially some pain throughout the zero eight crisis such that it made you really pivot into your strategy that you're employing now.
Chris Prefontaine (00:02:40) - Yeah, pain would be an understatement. Mentally, physically, you know, financially, big time. I had about 20 some odd properties at that time. I, I bought conventionally or with a loan and or with investor money. So I was on every single property personally guaranteed and so realized the hard way what that means. Yes, I had good credit so I did that but learned the hard way what that means when the market takes a dip one third to two thirds and some of my projects. And so that was a miserable four years from zero eight Feb till 12 Feb It was a miserable four years and we worked it out. We pivoted in 12 and said, okay, got my legs again, get out of my head and said, I can do this still after 18 years I can do this.
Chris Prefontaine (00:03:21) - And we pivoted and created the smart real estate coach and our own deals and we just do not do not sign personal loans anymore. And it's a little bit different going to sleep at night knowing that.
Sam Wilson (00:03:32) - I can only imagine four years is a long workout. I mean, that's a long time to be under that amount of stress. What were some of the things? You know, looking back on it, you'd say, hey, you know, this is how how would your approach change? Were you to be in that position again?
Chris Prefontaine (00:03:52) - I'd say exactly, because it was all mental. It was me beating on myself saying, what the heck? And despite it being a national crisis, I blamed it on me. Right? My stuff. So I will tell you, in hindsight, I would have done what I did about at the three and a half year point, which was go find 2 or 3 people that have been through it and then some over the years and have more experience in the market than I do.
Chris Prefontaine (00:04:14) - So people 15, 20 years older than me, that was super successful. I did that. But it took me too long to do that and got in my own head. And when I did that, one of them literally chuckled at me. Sam. He chuckled at me and said, Okay, here's all things I've been through, and he's listed a litany of things. And then it made me seem like, okay, it's no big deal, but wish I did it earlier. Like I'm talking like six months in. Go. Okay, help me tell me how to get through this. But but so it's really key because success leaves clues, right? You and I know that. So there is someone out there that went through what you went through. I don't care what it is. Personal business, financial, this summit. So you got to seek them out earlier.
Sam Wilson (00:04:48) - I like that a lot. That's that's really, really smart. It sounds like, um, you know, finding those people that were ahead of you are the ones that kind of, like you said, help you get out of your own own head on that.
Sam Wilson (00:04:59) - Like, that's, that's fantastic. I mean, that's so true. I think for any of us, though, I mean, it's the same reason we're in mastermind, the same surround ourselves hopefully with people smarter than us.
Chris Prefontaine (00:05:09) - Right on.
Sam Wilson (00:05:09) - Yeah, but I like that. So you think you could have shortened that four year period to 6 to 12 months maybe?
Chris Prefontaine (00:05:16) - Yeah. In hindsight, the mental game is so crazy, right? I just. I just was in the cycle and then you. And then you start attracting more of it. And that sounds kind of fufu, I know, for some people, but I'm telling you it's real. And so, yeah, I could have done a lot more quickly.
Sam Wilson (00:05:29) - Yeah, man. No, it absolutely is. Yeah. I always say that being inside my head by myself is like a bad neighborhood. It's not somewhere you want to be alone. It.
Chris Prefontaine (00:05:38) - That's a good one. I like that.
Sam Wilson (00:05:39) - Absolutely. So, no, I like that.
Sam Wilson (00:05:41) - That's fantastic. So you pivot in 2012, you say, all right, look, you know, we've got to do things differently. You've no longer guaranteeing loans. You're no longer signing on stuff. How have you been able to employ this strategy over the last now, I guess, 11 years? Yeah, that's that's basic math. The last 11 years, I mean, we've had a bull run in the market. We've had incredible growth across all sectors. My. Argument, which you're going to prove me wrong. But would it be that man? You know. As things get better, people aren't looking to exit properties commercially, residentially, whatever it is on terms. Tell me why I'm wrong.
Chris Prefontaine (00:06:18) - Yeah, I always like using specific examples, so it's not theory. I am standing in my building, my commercial building right now. It's a mixed use building and I bought this in 18 and I bought it on owner financing. It was free and clear. That's who we that's who we target.
Chris Prefontaine (00:06:32) - That's our avatar free and clear properties. So that on 99% of the deals, I can structure principle only payments as long as I get them to their number and as long as I get the right term. Now, why did he do it? To answer your question, he did it for personal tax planning and personal estate planning reasons only. He had a four by eight sign saying My firm is building me and realtors coming in saying I got an offer for I got a buyer for. And he kept saying, No, no, no, I want in need owner financing. So there are always going to be people out there. There's a third of the properties in the United States roughly, that are free and clear. That is a great pond to fish in. Always don't care what the market is. And I know this, the market can go up, down, sideways. Doesn't matter. You will always, always have enough deal to come across during any market as long as you know how to pivot creatively.
Chris Prefontaine (00:07:17) - And that's what we do. And I just give you one example, but that's a great example.
Sam Wilson (00:07:20) - It's a great example. I mean, but in this particular case, you had a seller that was already looking for what it is that you do. How does this conversation shift when you have a seller that is on the, you know, the other side of the equation where they're like, hey, look, I only want. A sale. Cash out. I'm going. I'm done. How do you. How do you warm up that conversation with the seller such that it becomes an option they'll consider?
Chris Prefontaine (00:07:48) - Yeah. So my conversation sounds like this. If you said that to me as a seller, I just have one question that'll tell me if need to go further or not, and I'm just open with them and I might not be there by the question is great. 99% of the sellers I buy from want what you just described. Full price, close now conventional. Everything's simple. However, fracture closings are at like 20% right now.
Chris Prefontaine (00:08:08) - Things have fallen apart. So if it doesn't sell and if you don't get your price at the time you want, what's your backup? And that usually provokes a further conversation down the road. So I give them their space, let them go try it if they need their cash up front. And they absolutely know that and they need the equity out to go buy a house for the family or a building for whatever, they absolutely can't pivot. I'm not the buyer. They need the cash now. People need to be able to wait. That's why I like free and clear, because the financially typically well off.
Sam Wilson (00:08:35) - Right, right. Right.
Chris Prefontaine (00:08:36) - Yeah, that's.
Sam Wilson (00:08:37) - True. Yeah. If you're if you're if you're owning commercial properties, residential properties, whatever it is and it's free and clear, then you've made some good decisions along the way and you're not you're, they're not actively looking to cash out and harvest that equity. Maybe, you know, like somebody that's levered to the hilt. So that's, that's really, really cool.
Sam Wilson (00:08:56) - Have you seen have you seen any deal flow increase, decrease? Has it been steady? What's what's that been like and what's kind of the sentiment towards. Yeah.
Chris Prefontaine (00:09:07) - Super applicable question. So here's what happened. I'll go back to like pre Covid and give you the gist. Yeah. So because all this means is what pond do you fish in? I don't care if you look whatever asset you're looking for. Are you fishing in the for sale by owner fishing expired. You're fishing in a niche list like free and clear. Just you just have to pivot where you're fishing. Here's why I say that. Beginning of 20 people panicked. I scream to my community, the wicked smart community. No, no, no. This is when you doubled down. They need a guide. Sure enough, our properties tripled what we were taking in, but that only lasted three months. Then the market got hot, right? A four months. Whatever it was. So then everything was selling like hotcakes. So was it a good pond to fish in for sale by owner in any asset class? No.
Chris Prefontaine (00:09:44) - That was you had to do a lot of calls to get the same lead. And so you just have to bop. And we've with where you're fishing our properties steadied out then meaning instead of getting 25 a month in the community, you probably got 10 or 12. And then it's now the market slowly but surely has been going right back up with some strong demand from the expired market. Right. Because things aren't selling like they used to. The media is screaming. I think they're incorrect, but they're screaming, panicked, everybody. And that's causing sellers to come looking for us. So it's going to do the ebb and flow. To your point, it's just a matter of you knowing where to fish, knowing your metrics, because that's what we teach, but also knowing like the skills to structure deals and creative real estate will put you through any market. That's it. You can pivot and pivot and deal after a deal. After a deal.
Sam Wilson (00:10:24) - What what, what are what are some things that you're really with? People that work with you? What are some ways you're structuring deals and or, you know, insisting, hey, this is the right way to structure a deal? And then maybe what are some pitfalls as well?
Chris Prefontaine (00:10:39) - Yeah.
Chris Prefontaine (00:10:39) - So the free and clear on the financing I love I also love the sub two meaning if you knew listening to this just subject to the existing loan balance. I just one of my students just told me about a large commercial building where the gentleman actually couldn't wait to sell it, subject to his existing loan, meaning that loan stays in their name right until such time it's cashed out. And then there was a owner financing component for his equity. So that's kind of a quasi owner financing sub two combo. I love those because let's think about it. What were the interest rates for the last year or so? Super low, right? And now we're grabbing buildings in residential that have these low interest rates. You can't get better than that. Even if you went and did it for yourself, right? You have one property or you have one house or whatever, and you're getting it for two and a 3:45 and three quarter rate. Not bad. That's what we're seeing. It's crazy.
Sam Wilson (00:11:29) - That's free money. I mean, it's it's free money.
Sam Wilson (00:11:32) - And that's a that's a I know there's gonna be a left turn here, but that's something I've been trying to convince my own mother of, who is now in her late 70s. And it's like, don't pay off your home. You have a fixed mortgage at like 2.5%.
Chris Prefontaine (00:11:45) - It's crazy, isn't it?
Sam Wilson (00:11:46) - 30 years?
Chris Prefontaine (00:11:47) - I don't think we'll see it. I really don't.
Sam Wilson (00:11:48) - Know. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And yeah, those are those are those are amazing deals to find. Okay. So we've talked a little bit about the way you like to structure them and that was a unique structure, a sub two plus owner financing on the on the equity side of it. Like how what's a seller's motivation even in a situation like that? Why? Yeah.
Chris Prefontaine (00:12:10) - This is also a great timing question that you hit. You're hitting some high points. Here's why because I wasn't seeing those before. I was seeing people that want to sell. They're free and clear pretty much while often have time. People that are selling us sub to and willing to keep their name on the loan are usually hurting financially now in the community.
Chris Prefontaine (00:12:26) - Rick in New Hampshire comes to mind. His last two deals, six figure deals for him. They were both sub two with a component of owner financing. And what I'm seeing is to answer your question. People. They either have two properties they're getting up in age or they have two properties or more, and they are a little afraid with the media screaming. The media is helping us because again, think they're incorrect. But that's what's going on now. And you know what he prospects he specifically is prospecting now this particular student owners of two or more properties. And so it's not surprising me now in hindsight that he's finding that because they just want to unload some they want top dollar, but they can give us a term. And if on the equity piece we're making no payments or interest till the end or we're making principal only payments, that's a Great recession. Hedge It's a great play. It's a great leverage play. I love it.
Sam Wilson (00:13:13) - Absolutely. Any I mean, a savvy seller, again, I'm giving a counterargument, but a good savvy seller would say, hey, look, Chris, you know, I love the deal.
Sam Wilson (00:13:23) - Maybe I do owner financing on the equity portion. Let's even structure, you know, you can take it sub two, but I'm going to need personal guarantees. I'm going to need something that says you got skin in this game and you're going to perform. How do you handle that conversation?
Chris Prefontaine (00:13:38) - I've gotten it literally more so when I first got back in, but literally maybe 3 or 4 times where the attorney hits me or hits my attorney. Right. And I just tell him it's not for me, quite frankly. And and I think it's usually a confidence issue. I don't think I know as I listen to some of my students calls, if they're getting it, they're usually coming across pretty weak on the phone. It's not a negative. It's just not his experience. So I don't get any more just from a conference standpoint. And if I do those first few times I bought it was a multi coincidentally, and I ended up buying that property because my attorney said they don't do it. You have the security.
Chris Prefontaine (00:14:09) - You're telling me it's low loan to value. They don't do it. And so they came back. Now that one took a year and there was a big residential properties like 14 acres, almost a million bucks. And that one took a year. He kept wanting to do it with me, and he went through two attorneys who said, No, no, no, you can't do that. They got a sign. Okay, let me know. So if they end up selling, good for them. But if they don't, they're going to come back. So we just don't sign personally.
Sam Wilson (00:14:29) - What what would you say is the average cycle or average? You mentioned a year there. So what is the average time it takes to get deals like this the way you're structuring them closed?
Chris Prefontaine (00:14:41) - Good question. I would go anywhere from 60 days to a year, Sam, because like this building when I talked to him. Now, granted, to your point, he was looking for it right and in cold calm.
Chris Prefontaine (00:14:52) - But this took probably we we actually we live on an island so we happen to use the same law firm. So this was like a ten minute conversation. He loved my book. He read it. He's like a math guy. He's like, this is great. And they structure a deal. Like this whole thing took maybe a week. So usually it's a couple months to a year. Now, what dictates that? In my opinion, if they're an expired property, they're on with a commercial or residential agent, they're usually more quickly converting. If they're a for sale by owner, they it takes follow up. Why are they a for sale by owner they think they can sell, right? So when they realize they can't like 98% of them don't, then then they come to reality. They either go to an agent or call us. Right? So that does take longer. Those are follow up calls always. Yeah.
Sam Wilson (00:15:33) - So let's talk about that on on the finding deals side of things. What's what's kind of the strategy behind this? Is there a particular program you use Is there I know you mentioned expired, you mentioned free and clear.
Sam Wilson (00:15:46) - I mean, obviously you can there's data sets where you can pull down that data. But what's the what's the process we have?
Chris Prefontaine (00:15:53) - We do have a lead source that that feeds us. Those categories I'm mentioning to you. And then a database. You know, you and I know you could pull a list of literally anything, but I love like the multiple properties or Love Free and clear out of state, you know, combos like that, That's where we get them. Then what happens though, we have a virtual assistant call first. So our students, unless they want to do more on their own to increase their lead flow, if that's if that's their business plan, most of them are starting with a virtual assistant calling so that the cream rises. Hey. Yeah. Have him give me a call. Yeah, I'm open to that. Then we'll call those leads. They're a lot stronger. I keep those in my desk at any one time. Like the virtual assistant emails them to me, and I call those only unless I'm in a mode where I want to open up a new list and experiment myself.
Sam Wilson (00:16:36) - Right, Right. No, that that makes a heck of a lot of sense. We've covered subject two, We've covered owner finance. We've covered the ways that you guys are finding leads. I want to know, and you mentioned commercial, which obviously this show is 100% about commercial real estate. Are there asset classes? Is there are there any asset classes where you're not seeing transactions like this occur?
Chris Prefontaine (00:16:58) - Uh, not me personally. No. I think here's something interesting. I do have some people say either on a show or even sellers say, Oh, I've never heard of that. Okay, really? Okay. So if you read the new book by Anderson Cooper, I read it because his family had a mansion on Bellevue Ave here in Newport, Rhode Island. So I said that would be interesting. In the book, he talks about his family buying owner financing and he called it master lease purchase on these large buildings in New York City in the 1600s before banking like so it's been around forever. Sure.
Chris Prefontaine (00:17:27) - All we did is wrap a bow around it and assistant around it and support around it so that students don't go. They go in the real world. We help them get deals done. We revenue share and we're in the trenches. But other than that, it's been around forever. You can do any asset class, planes, boats, cars, any asset class can be done the way we just talked about, right?
Sam Wilson (00:17:43) - Yeah, I've actually thought about that quite a bit. Is is that there. And I've done a not a ton but a fair share of owner finance and subject to deals probably obviously nowhere near the scale that you have but I've often thought about that. I'm like, my gosh, like the potential to do this across anything like you said, planes, boats, cars, homes, any of those things exist because there's always a motivated seller somewhere that needs to get out. I think the trick the trick is finding and tell me if I'm wrong here, but the trick is finding the right data set or the right pond in which to fish.
Chris Prefontaine (00:18:19) - Is that sound about Once you're in any pond, what do we really doing? Because people say to me, Oh, how do you convince them? Never What? Never convince? What I do is listen for the motivation. What would you do if it didn't sell right? Bingo. You get you get the answer. Then if you can solve for that, good. You're gonna have a deal. If you can't tell them I'm not your buyer. So it's that simple. And just to get people's mindset, the asset class in the price doesn't matter. Sam Right. Sure was a house. I bought a house here in Newport a little while ago. This was back before the crash, and the guy in front of me didn't know it right away, bought that house owner financing. He needed to do that because he's going through a divorce. You're talking about several million dollar property. He needed to do it because going through divorce and then eventually he put financing on it. But my point is, there's no class or price range that's off limits.
Chris Prefontaine (00:19:04) - In fact, I would argue that the higher end buildings in residential are more apt to do it. They understand it, the more savvy. It's a very easy conversation.
Sam Wilson (00:19:13) - That's interesting. That's that's that's a I think that's that's a brilliant point. The higher end assets, the more expensive they are. Probably more likely, which is probably true. I mean, we see that in multifamily, you know, loan assumptions. Yeah, same kind of basic idea. Obviously, a loan assumption in a multifamily property is maybe very or is structured very differently than a subject to would be. But you know, in the end, same basic idea somebody else has.
Chris Prefontaine (00:19:38) - And I'd be shocked, to your point, if you could run across an investor, say like you or I, that has bought and sold and gone through challenges that loves a bank, that prefers to use a bank before. So that's why they're open. A lot of people aren't bankable or don't want to deal with banks, right?
Sam Wilson (00:19:54) - Right. Oh, absolutely.
Sam Wilson (00:19:56) - Absolutely. No, I'm in the I'm in the it's it's funny, you mentioned that. Thanks for bringing up the pain here this week. It's I'm waiting like like nail biting on in a pre a delayed appraisal for a closing that's supposed to happen Friday on a commercial building and it's like. Oh, this process sucks. Okay. So, yeah, I love I love what you're doing. Let's talk a little bit about your book here. I know you have an offer here for our listeners. I think it's very, very generous of you. Tell us about the title of your book, what it's About, and how they might get a copy of that.
Chris Prefontaine (00:20:28) - Sure. It's real estate on your terms. It was written in 17 best seller. Then we were revising it right at the end of 19, beginning of 20, and Covid hit us. So we said, okay, let's take advantage of this, this opportunity here and update it appropriately. So we did. So it's very, very up to date right through like 2021, I think it came out.
Chris Prefontaine (00:20:47) - And that's going to show a through kind of what you and I talked about, but a little bit more granular on how you can buy any asset class without using a cash credit or gobs of cash or or your credit or investors if you don't choose to do that. Because I do have people that read a book go, You know what resonated, Chris don't want to go raise money like some people just don't want to do that, right? So it's going to teach you how to do that. We do have a free copy and it's not one of those offers, as I told you off air that says, you know, free copy and then you got to put it into credit card free shipping. Right. We are going to ship it from this building and you'll get that and you might get another book in there as well. Just go to wicked smart books with wicked smart books, dot com, forward slash Sam and then the number one numeric number one.
Sam Wilson (00:21:26) - Awesome wicked smart books.com/sam number one and you can get a copy of real estate on your terms.
Sam Wilson (00:21:33) - That's really generous of you guys to share that with us and I think it's extra cool. And I mentioned this off air, but extra cool that you guys ship a hard copy book still out to people. It's not just the oh, what's the what was the term used. Yeah it's not just a PDF download they called that there was a name, somebody who's a term for their day that's like, oh they call it a snooze fest. They're like, Oh, thanks for the PDF download. There's a total snooze fest. So actually getting a real book in the mail I think is is really, really cool. Chris I've enjoyed having you here on the show today. We've covered all sorts of really fun things. I loved hearing your story of just how you've transitioned from 1991 all the way here to 2023 and the wealth of experience that you have. I love what you're doing in the marketplace. Yeah, it's talked about a lot, but I think you guys bring a new and exciting kind of angle to the way that these assets are taken down and just, you know, learning how to do open finance subject to even on larger commercial projects is a very exciting and enticing discussion.
Sam Wilson (00:22:31) - So thank you for that. If our listeners want to get in touch with you outside of getting a copy of the book and or your company, what is the best way to do that?
Chris Prefontaine (00:22:37) - You can just email me Chris Chris at smart real estate coach. Com. Just make sure they mention your show because I don't always give that out.
Sam Wilson (00:22:44) - Got it. Chris at smart real estate coach.com mentioned the Hello skill commercial real estate podcast. Chris thank you again for coming today I do appreciate it. Hey thanks for listening to the How to scale Commercial real Estate podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen. If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories. So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.
