How do we interact with Bitcoin in a multi layer world? What cost savings and trade offs are necessary here? What even counts as a layer? Kilian from boltz.exchange joins me to talk about swapping across Bitcoin on-chain, Lightning and Liquid. We discuss:

• How swapping works


• What makes it atomic and non-custodial


• What counts as layer 2


• Fee savings and trade offs

Links:

• X: @kilrau


• Site: boltz.exchange


• X: @boltzhq


• Taproot feature blog post: Introducing Taproot Swaps: Putting the "Fun" Back into Refunds! 

Sponsors:

• Swan.com (code LIVERA)


• CoinKite.com (code LIVERA)


• Mempool.space


• Nomadcapitalist.com

Stephan Livera links:

• Follow me on X: @stephanlivera


• Subscribe to the podcast


• Subscribe to Substack

Chapters/Timestamps:

• 00:00 - Introduction and Background


• 03:07 - Bolts.exchange: Moving Between Bitcoin Layers


• 05:35 - Use Cases for Lightning Service Providers


• 09:45 - Enhancing Wallet Functionality


• 13:20 - Non-Custodial Atomic Swaps


• 21:43 - Coinkite.com


• 23:07 - NomadCapitalist.com


• 24:25 - Fees and Fee Savings


• 29:35 - Trust Model of Liquid


• 32:40 - Regulatory Risks for Liquid


• 37:10 - Transaction Limits on Liquid


• 38:58 - Mempool.space


• 39:59 - Swan.com


• 41:02 - Scalability of Liquid


• 44:15 - Integration of Liquid with Other Services and Wallets


• 51:22 - Pragmatism in Bitcoin Adoption


• 55:45 - Operating in a High-Fee Environment


• 57:45 - Closing Thoughts