Executive coach and team development expert: Jamie Douraghy  jdouraghy com.

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Hello Everyone.  I'm excited to welcome Jamie to this podcast and introduce you to him. You may wonder why we have the same last name… It's because we're married! I was looking to create this series of podcasts on company culture and realized that, right here,is someone who has expertise in helping companies and leadership teams build culture using the strengths of the team

And I thought… Hey, Jamie, would you come and talk to me about building company culture? So here we are!  Jamie, glad to have you here. Finally, after 30 years of marriage, our first podcast together!

Jamie: Yes, we've been negotiating this moment for quite some time now. 

Katty: Exactly, So what I wanted to dive in with you in this….With everything that has changed in the past few years with COVID and the Great Resignation and this whole movement with hybrid and remote and so on and so forth. We talk about how companies go about in terms of building culture, and learn about their teams. And I know that one of the frameworks that you use is StrengthsFinders.

So I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that and the importance of knowing what strengths people BRING, and what it is that they NEED on a particular team. Would you mind just sharing a little bit about your background and how you've come to this point.

 

Jamie: Absolutely. My, journey into this world of understanding why, how, and what people need to do to work better together began about 11/ 12 years ago, when I went through the proverbial discovery of your WHY, and then the HOW and WHAT became easier.

What I appreciate about CliftonStrengths is that it focuses on HOW we do what we do, when we know our WHY, which is intrinsic and very personal, our WHAT can become much more dynamic. And then many individuals can get lost in how they're doing what they're doing when they're not clear on that. And CliftonStrengths, as you take the assessment, you look at your 34 complete talents and the top five become your strengths.

Those are the ones to initially focus on. When I'm working with companies is focus on the talents of 6 through 10, because that's where we are learning that the true potential lies and the greatest potential to be unlocked are, is in the talents that are not necessarily our strengths.

Katty: So you mean the first five of those 10 is something that naturally occurs. It's the six through 10 that the potential and the opportunities lie within.

Jamie: Exactly. For example, Context is my number two (strength). I don't have to think about watching a documentary or what I'm going to learn from a specific book. I just pick it up, or I just do it.   

My number six or seven is Maximizer, where I need to take good things and I want to make them great. I have to put a little bit more intentionality and a little bit more thought into it. It's not an automatic process.

Katty: So really a growth opportunity even for every individual.

Jamie: Definitely. Our greatest growth, for me, lies within the six through ten. 

Katty: How would you say…from a team dynamics standpoint,  I know you've shared in the past that GallupStrengths or CliftonStrengths is not a hiring tool, but more of a development tool.  Can you share a little bit more about that and how hiring managers as a whole can utilize tools like CliftonStrengths to be able to develop their core team, and their people?

Jamie: These tools show how good a person may be on paper,  or as a result of algorithms and science that have been put out there. Where the greatest growth happens is when they are doing the work.  And when I know how I can do some things better than others, then I can team up with the right people that are, if not, better at certain areas and partner up with them.  And for me, that's where team dynamics become more important than growing just one individual.

 It's really how you grow the entire team, and what are the individual contributions that each player can make, to make that team greater. So, I didn't answer the question.  Probably to be more specific, all the assessments are good.  They all offer insights. It's similar to a painter. A paintbrush is a paintbrush, but it's a different painting in the hand of Picasso than it is in Van Gogh's. It's really how the manager knows how to use those tools to get the best, to extract the best out of people. 

Katty: I understand that. Thank you for that analogy.  That makes sense to me. I know that it was a very eye-opening exercise for me to just take my assessments and recognize what my strengths were and maybe what is not so strong for me, and choose whether I want to work on that or not.

How would you suggest to different teams who work together to use this tool for constant communication? And how do they operationalize it? Basically where I want to go with it is it's one thing to take the assessment, but it can easily sit in a drawer and collect dust.  It's another thing for it to become part of the everyday conversation of a team. What would you suggest there? 

Jamie: The best way is to use it as an opener for many meetings. There are thousands of companies that use Gallup's tool, CliftonStrengths, to create a strengths-based culture.  I know when I was in a leadership role several years ago, as we were going through COVID, our monthly meetings were “What two strengths are you counting on to get you through COVID?”  And it allowed for people to be authentic. It allowed people to look at themselves and say, okay, these are the things that I can count on myself because we don't exactly know what's going on in the world outside.

 And then when that is shared collectively, people start to connect. They say, oh, okay, I can go to this person for that, I can go to that person for this. And importantly, my team can come to me for what they need.

One of the CliftonStrengths reports is the Bring/Need report…What's the value that I bring to the team, and what's the energy that I need to gain from the team? And when you have everybody doing this in sync, it can become a very powerful way of pushing teams up to that next level. 

Katty: Who can I go to beacuse I don't have that strength, but somebody else does. Or who can I rely on to see this (through) and vice versa? 

For clarity's sake, speaking of context... I know we're referring to CliftonStrengths, Gallup, and Strengthsfinders.  Would you mind sharing with everyone that we are talking about the same tool, just the name has evolved?

Jamie: Yes. It was StrengthsFinders and then it became CliftonStrengths. And within CliftonStrengths there are 34 talent themes, of which the top five become your strengths. 

Katty: And then six through 10 are the opportunities for further development and growth.

Jamie: Exactly, They do support the top five.

Katty: And I think it's really interesting for the audience to that we're talking about it in the context of work, but how impactful it is in the context of everyday relationships and conversations.  Jamie's number two strength is Context, it's my number 32…..

So you could just imagine the conversations that we have around that, or I know who to go to any time I want details on things because that is not me! Or I want the history of things, I know who to go to for that. That makes a very interesting conversation!

Jamie: I know to come to you for ideas because you have ideation quite high.  And if I'm stuck on a certain area and can't break through, I will come to you and ask, Hey, this is the challenge I'm facing. What thoughts do you have? You'll give me a list of ideas very quickly. And then I will take those and then put them into my way, my methodology of executing.

Katty: So at Artisan Creative, we, several years ago chose to adopt, StrengthsFinders as one of our frameworks and one of the tools that we're using here.

What we've done to operationalize it is that on our Slack channel, every single member has their strengths listed. In every single team meeting, we talk about what we bring to the table, and what we need based on our strengths.  When we're talking about reviews and just having one-on-ones, really looking at where those strengths need support, how those strengths are showing up. It's become part of our company culture and part of our conversation, which has strengthened, no pun intended, but it has strengthened how we're communicating and how we're talking to one another.

Jamie: That's good. What's an example of how you've done that beyond Slack? What's an example of maybe in a meeting or when you're facing a challenge where you said, Let's look at our collective strengths. 

Katty: Yeah, so the interesting piece is that we have some team members who are very high in Communication. And we have some team members that communicate but maybe not necessarily outgoing, they're not the social butterflies if you will, and making sure that both sides of the equation, the ones that have, you know, WOO (Winning Others Over) as part of their strengths, and recognizing that maybe not every single person on the team has that. And still creating space for everybody to have time to communicate and to verbalize what's going on and not dominating the conversation…so just that recognition and that self-awareness has been huge. Otherwise, our conversations could turn very one-sided.  So that's been an important distinction, just to know that there are some amazing people with amazing things to say. They may just not be the first ones who jump in with something and how to create the space for them to say something. That has been important to recognize.

So when you're talking and working with leaders on these leadership teams, and utilizing, whether it be StrengthsFinders or any other assessment that they're choosing to use on their teams and in their organizations, how do you go about advising them as to how to use that tool and how to utilize it to bring clarity, communication and conversations to the forefront?

Jamie: I believe for leaders to get to know their teams better, the teams have to get to know the leader better and open up and show your strengths, show your struggles.  Let everybody have a peek behind the curtain, see that, and then open it up. Usually, the answers most time the answers are already within the room.

And if the leader is able to openly communicate, this is where we're going, here's why we're doing this, now let's get to the how part. And this is where we're going to need each of you to step up.  Let's talk about the value that you bring; let's talk about your strengths; let's talk about your struggles.

And if we are lacking certain resources or certain diversity of thought, then let's go out there and get those players or look within and develop people that are within and bring them up to that next level. So, it's really important for the strengths to be throughout the entire company and not remain the exclusive domain of the leadership team.

Katty: So do you mean that as a leader, if they're looking at all the different strengths of their team members and are seeing particular gaps in particular strengths, they can recognize that in their 6 to 10 strengths they have an opportunity to develop that strength up or go out and add to their team with people who may have different skill sets.

Jamie: Exactly. Look within first. If it's there, create opportunities for those strengths to evolve, for those talents to evolve into strengths.  If it simply doesn't exist on the team, then let's look at who can complement this team.  Because if we have a team that is too similar in thinking, then the blind spots become pronounced.

We're all susceptible to the same blind spot if we don't have that broader base of diverse thinking. 

Katty: Yeah, I'd imagine that if a company culture is really about developing their existing talents and helping their existing employees rise to the next level, whether it be within the company or just, you know, personally grow,  having a tool to be able to calibrate that and help promote that is going to be really important.

If people are interested in just finding it out for themselves, maybe it's not something that their company offers, can they just go to the CliftonStrengths site and take the assessment for themselves?

Jamie: Absolutely. The assessment requires about 40 minutes of uninterrupted time, and there are two products that they offer.   One is the Top 5 at a certain price, and then there's the full 34 at a higher price. And the reports are very robust and they give a lot of good personal insight. And what better investment of one's time than to start to study oneself? 

Katty: I wish I had had this tool many, many years ago. I think there are some things that I was harsh on myself for but realized later on that actually, wasn't a strength.  I just didn't recognize it at the time. I know that this particular tool is also available for younger adults. 

Jamie: They do have one that's designed specifically for children from the age of seven/ eight to about 13.   And it's called Strengths Explorer.  That's really to allow families to have a similar conversation with younger children. And I believe it gives you the top three in a language that's easier to understand and easier for parents and children to communicate.  

Katty: I know what, that's something that you've focused on is to bring clarity, and open communication to teams and to groups. 

Jamie: And one thing I've learned from the coaching that I've done and in particular from Judith Glaser and Conversational Intelligence is that the quality of our relationships is based on the quality of our conversations, and the quality of our relationships determines the quality of our culture…and everything happens through conversation.

And if CliftonStrengths can be a tool that stimulates a level three conversation, then what better tool to be using on an ongoing basis in terms of both personal and team development? 

Katty: What's a level three conversation? 

Jamie: Well, actually, before I start that, let's go to level one. Level one is, is really transactional. It's when you tell and ask and just go back and forth. And level two is positional when you're advocating “I'm right, you may not be right. I'm right, you may not be right”.  

Level three is transformational. It's where the conversation builds on each person's contribution to that conversation. And from there, you're in essence, co-creating, and it's releasing different kinds of chemicals in the brain where you create a safe space, to build something. That's where the greatest creativity happens because you're building something greater than when you started the conversation. 

Katty: Yeah, I can see how that's so powerful, especially, obviously, we work with creatives and we work with people who are in the space of co-creating all the time and or a creative working with their team members and maybe on the Account side or the project side.

Creatives look at things differently. Art is very subjective. So, to have that ability and to understand that I'm trying to have a transformational conversation and not necessarily positional.  Maybe sometimes it is transactional, but elevating to that level and know who our teammates are and what their strengths are, really helps to have those types of deeper transformational conversations.

Jamie: Absolutely. And we do need transactional and positional conversations. It's when we get stuck in that rut and don't elevate ourselves to the next one, is that's the opportunity that's being missed and being able to recognize a pattern and knowing, oh, so and so is this way because they have such high Belief as one of their Strengths. So how do I get them to see that there's another perspective that may be as equally as valid as the ones that they are so tightly holding on to?

Katty: What would you leave our audience with, if there was one thing after this call that they chose to implement on their team or in their company to help elevate culture and understanding and communication?  What would you suggest that they do? 

Jamie: I would put it in a simple phrase: "know your strengths, know yourself."  And then when you know yourself, be curious about the strengths of your team and your teammates and bring that culture so they are equally curious about you.  And so we're constantly uncovering these amazing talents that we all possess. Yet, we don't always have the opportunity to express them. And once we're able to express them and see them in action, it does tend to elevate the entire team. 

Katty: Amazing. Well, thank you for, after 30 years, taking the time to sit here with me and have this conversation about StrengthsFinders and culture building. Where can people find you?

Jamie: Easiest way is jdouraghy com. I'm also on LinkedIn as well.  

Katty: Thanks so much, Jamie.

Jamie: Thanks. And, I guess we got to go make dinner now, right? 

Katty:Yes, it is that time.