My special guests this episode are Dr Jesus Rosales-Ruiz and Mary Hunter. As hosts of the Art and Science of Animal Training Conference, they bring together behavior scientists and animal trainers to inspire both communities and elevate the conversation. The theme of the most recent conference was negative reinforcement. In this podcast we revisit this topic and so much more. Our discussion of negative reinforcement meant more exploration of Constructional Aggression Treatment (C.A.T). Jesus and Mary shared some great stories from the lab (even one about training a cockroach!) that are important for trainers to hear. Sometimes what occurs in a laboratory experiment looks very different from what trainers do. A great example was our discussion of counter conditioning. We also discuss the importance of function-based interventions and how positive reinforcement can have better effect once you take care of the negative reinforcement contingency already in place. This also tied into the issue surrounding coercive applications of positive reinforcement and how to remove those barriers. Jesus and Mary share some relatable real-life examples to help illustrate these issues trainers face, for example when animals show fear responses to new objects or household items. This episode is full of science and practical application, and I love that it left me thinking “I have so much more to learn!” Visit the episode webpage for a video clip and link to more resources.