Zoo Logic

Dr. Grey Stafford

About

Zoo Logic with animal trainer, zoo advocate, and ZOOmility author, Dr. Grey Stafford, is a weekly conversation with zoo, aquarium, and animal experts about Nature, wildlife, pets, animal training with positive reinforcement, health and welfare, research, conservation, and education, sustainability, zoo politics, activism and legislation, and all things animals! On Zoo Logic, we’ll go behind the scenes with animal professionals and influencers from around the world to explore the latest Zoos News and issues affecting wildlife, wild places, and people. Communicating with humor, cool stories, and candor, we’ll discover the interdependent connection between civilization, conservation, and commerce.

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312 episodes

Boldly Go

What is the secret to longevity and relevance in any career path?  While the answer may vary among differing professions, one ingredient seems to be a willingness to "apply the joy of exploration to our own lives," according to actor, director, best selling author, musician, and real life space traveler, William Shatner. In 2022, Shatner now 93, best known for his iconic role on Star Trek as Captain James T. Kirk, wrote with coauthor, writer and director Joshua Brandon. The book is a series of reflections and insights stemming from personal triumphs and tragedies and a career spanning eight decades. We talk with Josh about what it was like to meet and later collaborate with the iconic entertainer and what advice he has to share for those pursuing their dream in a highly competitive field like television and film or... zookeeping. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

35m
Mar 28
Caring for Military Working Dogs After Their Service

It would likely surprise most people that until about a decade ago, military service dogs were routinely euthanized at the end of their working service life rather than be transported back to the U.S. and a life of retirement. Congress and the Department of Defense finally provided some resources to ensure military working dogs are returned to U.S. soil at the completion of their service. These funds do not cover all transport costs and there are currently no funds to help these animals deal with the impact of physical and psychological trauma or illness when their military careers are completed. The situation is even more dire for the much larger group of trained service dogs used by private military contractors for whom there is no funding for return transport or even guaranteed feeding and medical treatment. Mission K9 Rescue co-founder Bob Bryant returns to discuss a bill pending in Congress to provide grant funding in support of military working dog medical care throughout their lives. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

21m
Mar 21
Uncompromising Animal Ambassador Welfare

Recently, the open access scientific journal  published a special issue entitled: Zoo and Aquarium Welfare, Ethics, Behavior.  Many of the peer-reviewed papers within this special issue focus on and in some instances call for improvements to animal welfare assessment, husbandry, training, housing, and overall management. The goal of the invited editors, which includes the host of , was to highlight advances and current best practices across a range of species, and to inspire further progress, while also addressing public perceptions and expectations of zoos and aquariums. One such paper, "A Reexamination of the Relationship between Training Practices and Welfare in the Management of Ambassador Animals https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/14/5/736," by lead author, and long time trainer and founder of Natural Encounters, Steve Martin and veterinarian and researcher, Dave Miller (and yours truly) examines the history and current state of ambassador animal welfare and the need for choosing the right species and individual animals for such programs (and avoiding the wrong ones). The authors make no secret that animal ambassador welfare has generally not kept pace with other advancements in zoo animal well being. It is vital that zoological facilities devote the necessary resources in terms of time, money, animal selection, and staff training to properly handle and ensure the best welfare outcomes for these animals with a unique role. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com    

36m
Mar 14
Secrets of the Octopus

A prolific naturalist, award-winning and bestselling author Sy Montgomery and her colleague, Warren Carlyle founder of Octonation, the largest octopus fan club in the world, have a new release entitled This book is a follow up to Sy's scientific treatment of the species in 2015's bestseller, . Warren and Sy's passion for this unique species is unmistakable. Both share their journey learning about and promoting further study and preservation of these animals beginning with their very personal encounters with an octopus at an aquarium. The new title comes in advance of a mini series of the same name produced by James Cameron and narrated by actor Paul Rudd scheduled to air on National Geographic on Earth Day. Both Sy and Warren are contributors to the docu-series and believe zoos and aquariums play a vital role in conservation and research. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

36m
Mar 07
Disaster Planning

The Executive Director of Zoological Disaster Response, Rescue, and Recovery (ZDR3 https://www.zdr3.org), Julia Matson Wagner, returns on the eve of this coming season for natural disasters such as wildfires, floods, and hurricanes. After several years focusing on providing immediate disaster response and support for affected zoological facilities, ZDR3 has grown in scope in terms of the number of participating facilities and expanded educational outreach. In just a few years, ZDR3's growing response network has more than 170 member facilities in 36 states. Julia describes how important disaster planning and drills along with having frank conversations about individual facility risks are before they are ever needed.  Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

30m
Feb 29
Tequila Corrido

After years of working with some of the world's top tequila brands, particularly on the elimination of production waste water, retired police officer Tony Boyle and his news anchor spouse, Olivia Fierro have embarked on a new venture producing Tequila Corrido. The relaunch of the award-winning spirit rests on the principles of sustainability and paying homage to tradition. From harvesting the hundreds of thousands of blue agave plants each year from local farms in the highlands of the Jalisco region of Mexico, featuring the skills of a well-known master distiller in Mexico respected for her knowledge of the agave to bottling in recycled glass--nearly every aspect of production is sourced in Mexico. According to their website, the name comes from the poetic ballads sung by smugglers who risked everything to peddle tequila in Prohibition-era border regions. Many of the early corridos celebrated these border bandits and folk heroes—telling tales of triumph and tragedies along trails and around campfires.  To celebrate these folk songs and traditional methods of producing tequila, each bottle of Tequila Corrido ships with a guitar pic. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com  

34m
Feb 22
My One-Eyed, Three-Legged Therapist

Kathy Finley found herself bullied as a child but she drew comfort, confidence, and courage from the pets she loved so well, especially her cats. She thought of her animals as the source of her superpower to make friends which helped build up her self-esteem. That is, until later in life she allowed an abusive husband to remove animals from her home life and thereby, sapping her confidence and feelings of self-worth. It was the gift of a shelter kitten by coworkers that changed everything following a bitter divorce. Today, she is happily remarried, retired, and is a published author of thanks in very large part to an independent and "self-proclaimed queen of the universe" cat named Clio who Kathy claims saved her even as they both experienced challenges and setbacks. Animal care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

36m
Feb 15
Conservation Math

Kevin Willis has served the zoological community for decades in a variety of posts, including time with the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, as one of our most important statisticians. His work is documented in peer-reviewed publications and essays across a multitude of terrestrial and aquatic species, from elephants to orcas. His greatest skill seems to be explaining and applying statistical principles to complex conservation questions in a manner the rest of us can easily grasp. He describes some of the history, key figures, and rationale behind the formation of Species Survival Programs (SSP), their original purpose, and where conservation biology and statistics stand today.  Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

36m
Feb 08
The Cetacean Sanctuary: A Sea of Unknowns

The journal, , has published a special issue that includes overviews and original research papers that rigorously assess zoo and aquarium behavior, welfare and ethics. One of the papers, The Cetacean Sanctuary: A Sea of Unknowns is written by frequent guest, Dr. Jason Bruck and concerns the elusive cetacean sanctuary standards put forth by the Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries (GFAS https://sanctuaryfederation.org). Jason methodically asks questions about important aspects of animal welfare arising from these standards, which point to no supportive peer-reviewed citations or a history of best practices as seen in other zoological welfare and husbandry standards such as the Alliance of Marine Mammal Parks and Aquariums https://www.ammpa.org or the Association of Zoos and Aquariums https://www.aza.org. In the final analysis, it is difficult to reconcile the stated top priority of sanctuary proponents, maximizing animal welfare, with the more likely motivation, the end of cetaceans in managed care. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

40m
Feb 01
International Elephant Foundation

The International Elephant Foundation https://elephantconservation.org turns 25 this year and the conservation organization continues to break new ground in preserving the world's largest land mammal. Conservation Coordinator, Sarah Conley describes the three species of elephants and the unique challenges to their respective survival. From working with local communities to support the work of game rangers, supporting research for the study and prevention of deadly EEHV to piloting the training and use of feral dogs as detection and protection canines, IEF excels at reducing overhead expenses and thus, maximizing the effectiveness of donations in the field where they can do the most good to help animals and humans successfully co-exist. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

37m
Jan 25
Dolphin Research Center Turns 40

According to its website, the Dolphin Research Center promotes peaceful coexistence, cooperation and communication between marine mammals, humans and the environment. They achieve this through education, research and rescue. Home to generations of bottlenose dolphins as well as California sea lions, the DRC is uniquely situated to study cognition, behavior and husbandry. DRC president and CEO Rita Irwin and Director of Research, Dr. Kelly Jaakkola discuss 40 years of scientific investigations and the future of marine mammals in human care. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

36m
Jan 18
Episode 300: A Head Full of Hope

A fun day of snowboarding for 18-year-old Forrest Allen ended in a life-threatening traumatic brain injury, which forever altered his life and that of his family and friends. Neurologists told his well-known parents, veterinarians, Kent Allen and Rae Stone, cofounder of Dolphin Quest https://dolphinquest.com, that he would likely not survive the night. Despite that dire warning, Forrest did indeed survive but not without surgeons having to remove 1/3 of his skull which resulted in its own set of complications and life threats. Throughout years of surgeries, setbacks, and rehabilitation therapies the family has been open about the highs and frightening lows of their journey including the vital role of supportive friends and colleagues within the zoological community, music therapy, and a wonderful service dog that helped Forrest regain his speech. Much of Forrest's recovery through music was documented in the 2020 award winning film "Music Got Me Here https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10756528/." Now, at 31, Forrest is rebuilding his life working summers with the Dolphin Quest teams, getting his driver's license, and serving as an inspiration to other families with loved ones experiencing terrible, debilitating brain injuries. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

32m
Jan 11
Planning Your First Safari

Many people dream of going on safari. Given the distance, time, and expense involved it is important to research and understand what options, locations, and experiences are most important to you and your travel companions. We talk with one expat with nearly 20 years of experience living abroad, combined with dozens of safaris to well known and more remote locations in east Africa for her suggestions on building that trip of a lifetime. Animal care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

23m
Jan 04
The Legacy of SeaWorld of Ohio

As 2023 draws to a close and  approaches its 300th episode, we look back at a remarkable institution that launched or strengthened the careers of many zoological professionals and leaders still very active today. In 1970, the second SeaWorld park opened in a most unlikely place, a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio on the shores of Geauga Lake. The purpose of building an inland marine animal park in the Midwest was to draw upon a radius of huge population centers located within about a 6-hour drive of the location. Sadly, the park could never escape the realities of a seasonal park in a region prone to spectacular winter weather. However, despite its brief 30-year history, the blue collar zoological park left an indelible mark on the community and the professionals that passed through her gates. Some of those that knew her well discuss the unique park and the lessons learned while working there. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

1h 11m
Dec 28, 2023
Veterinary Sustainability

KVP is one of the largest veterinary product manufacturers and distributors in the U.S. In their quarterly newsletter called the Bowman Report https://bowmanreport.com, the company describes the growing push by veterinarians and their customers towards more sustainably sourced materials and manufactured veterinary products, especially high use plastic products like nitrile gloves, pill bottles, and Elizabethan collars. VP of Marketing Will Schwing, discusses why customers are willing to spend on more sustainable products, the improved efficacy of such biodegradable products, and tips for those hoping to increase sustainable business practices at their own workplace. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com  

29m
Dec 21, 2023
Capitalism AND Conservation

Recently, Wildlife World Zoo, Aquarium & Safari Park welcomed the birth of a female white rhino. This was no ordinary or overnight conservation success story according to its president, Kristy Hayden. The process began nearly 10-years ago with a significant financial commitment of hundreds of thousands of dollars by the forty-year-old, for-profit organization to acquire and import 3 unrelated females from South Africa. After the animals were identified and their protection and care secured while awaiting permitting and transport, the project was met with extended delays by USFWS. These necessitated finding 3 younger animals suitable in size for transport, the need to build a new expansive rhino habitat and barn, and eventually, once they arrived, time to reach reproductive maturity. The goal by the late owner and director, Mickey Ollson, was to help improve the genetics of the North American population as part of ensuring survival of the species, even as poaching and habitat loss issues are hopefully resolved throughout the African continent in the future.  Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

27m
Dec 14, 2023
Errorless Learning

A recent peer-reviewed paper discussed the concept and procedure known as errorless learning and compares its efficacy training dogs to that of the more typical trial-and-error approach to learning. One of the authors of the paper: Comparing Trial-and-Error to Errorless Learning Procedures in Training Pet Dogs a Visual Discrimination, Dr. Eddie Fernandez discusses the process and its favorable impact on the subjects' frustration, behavior acquisition rate, and failure compared to trial and error learning.  The goal is to uncover ways to minimize any harmful effects on animal welfare during the learning process. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com  

52m
Dec 07, 2023
A Conversation About Mental Health and Grief with GRAZE

Several years ago, a few zoo professionals recognized the growing need for better access to mental health resources for their peers.  Together they formed Growing Resiliency for Aquarium and Zoo Employees or GRAZE for the purpose of "bringing mental health support to those in the zoo and aquarium industry by raising awareness, sharing ideas, resources, and tools." The GRAZE team of Erin McNally, LVT; Shannon McKinney & Hannah Fullmer discuss the nature of grief and how their company helps zoo professionals at all levels by providing Proactive Programing, Support Services, and Critical Incident Response. According to the GRAZE team, the key to coping with grief that comes with loss is a willingness to make oneself vulnerable--an animal caretaker trait that has historically been discouraged. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

37m
Nov 30, 2023
Brave-ish Author Lisa Niver

Lisa Niver was a successful teacher, traveler, and dive master turned award-winning travel writer, but privately things were not as they seemed. At the lowest point in her life and staring at starting over, she found the strength to free herself from an abusive marriage and set upon a path towards personal growth and healing. One strategy was to complete 50 challenges before her 50th birthday as described in her new book, Brave-ish: one breakup, six continents and feeling fearless after fifty.  She shares her experiences in eco-tourism, as well as, other adventures around the world and the importance of facing one's fears. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

36m
Nov 23, 2023
Hounds and Hops

Long time zoo expert and media personality, Jarod Miller and his business partner Bob Manley have launched phase one of their pet services concept Hounds and Hops https://houndsandhopsusa.com/ in his hometown of Buffalo, NY. In a city known for deep snowfalls and cold winters, their master plan includes the development of a covered outdoor dog-friendly green space, as well as, a spacious indoor dog park.  As part of the downtown area's revitalization, which includes redevelopment, jobs, and housing, Hounds and Hops will tap into the popularity of craft beers and wines to create a unique human and animal friendly space. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

37m
Nov 16, 2023
Humane Tourism

The oldest animal welfare organization in America, American Humane, has launched a new third party certification program consistent with its longstanding programs covering zoos, farming, and even the film and television industry. Announced a month ago, "Humane Tourism" is designed to certify "wildlife reserves, lodges, and tour operators for their humane responsibility toward the animal life that the operations may encounter and have the potential to impact."  As wildlife viewing vacations become increasingly popular, one goal of this new program is to provide well-meaning consumers the information needed to make conscientious choices about where to spend their wildlife tourism dollars. New SR VP & COO, Dr. Kashyap Choksi and Jill Nizan, Director, Conservation Operations discuss how the program was created and the potential global impact on ensuring wild animal welfare. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

29m
Nov 09, 2023
Evacuating Working Dogs from Afghanistan

Co-founder of Mission K9 Rescue, Bob Bryant returns to discuss the organization's recent success and ongoing mission to return military and contract working dogs from their deployments around the world as the animal's tour of duty ends due to illness, age, or loss of work drive. In many instances MWD are reunited with their longtime human handlers but without any financial support from the US military. The situation with CWD isn't as simple as these animals typically have no dedicated handler, which is why rehabilitation and adoption funding by groups like MK9R is critical for this group of service dogs. With the recent drawn down in Afghanistan, MK9R worked with the Taliban through a third party rescue on the ground to evacuate several of nearly 50 Canadian dogs under US military control that remained after the US departure. The circumstances around the laws and absent funding over the long term transport and post service care of these animals is complex and demands public intervention to ensure these canine service members receive the medical and behavioral care and best possible lives during their years of service and throughout their post service lives. While things have improved somewhat for those dogs classified as MWD, leaving any behind with no care or in the hands of our enemies (historically in Vietnam, MWD were euthanized or set to roam the jungles rather than returned to the US) as is the usual case with CWD is unacceptable. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

34m
Nov 02, 2023
Animal Educational Outreach Programs

We begin with long time zoo educator Lanie Angeles reminiscing  about her time at Moorpark College's Exotic Animal Training and Management Program and their recent 50th anniversary celebration. The lessons she learned there have helped her educate thousands of kids of all ages through animal outreach programs. She discusses the important and nearly universal impact that educational encounters with animals have on people of all ages, economic status, and walks of life. According to Lanie, ambassador animals are the "great leveler" turning even the most wealthy, famous or powerful people into inquisitive learners moved by the experience. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com AtoZooEducation.com

38m
Oct 26, 2023
Killers in Eden Revisited

Scientist and historian Dr. Danielle Clode returns to discuss her extraordinary 2002 book, and the documentary https://vimeo.com/47822835 that followed in 2004 that explored the unique cooperative relationship between a pod of orcas and their human whaling partners in a small coastal town in New South Wales. Building upon the historic relationship between the aboriginal Yuin people and the killer whale which are viewed as Yuin ancestors, beginning in the early 1800s, European whalers in the town of Eden spared the seasonally returning predators in favor of teaming with them to hunt migrating humpback, blue, and fin whales. Much like a pack of dogs, the orcas would roundup, wear down, and trap the passing massive baleen whales towards the waiting humans and their small boats in the bay. At night, the orcas would even swim towards the shore to slap their tail flukes and alert the whalers that prey was passing near. The improbable interspecies cooperation was based upon the "Law of the Tongue" in which humans would leave whale carcasses anchored in the bay so that the orcas could feed on the preferred baleen whale parts such as the lips and tongue. After a few days, the whalers would haul the rest of the whale to shore to harvest the blubber for whale oil. This unlikely cooperation lasted decades until the end of whaling in the early 20th century. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

36m
Oct 19, 2023
Trade Association Accreditation

With so many people inside and outside the zoological community paying attention to the Lolita/Toki killer whale story this past year, it was natural for there to be questions about her care, housing, training and future habitat. As events and confusing communications surrounding this beloved animal unfolded up to and including her sudden passing, questions about the role of trade associations like the International Marine Animal Trainers' Association (IMATA https://www.imata.org) emerged. Michael Hunt has been an active member of IMATA for decades including serving as its Board President on two occasions. He describes the process and narrow scope of IMATA accreditation of trainer development programs compared to other trade associations that accredit entire facilities, infrastructure, and operations. What are an organization's communications obligations to its individual members and what is their oversight role when circumstances like the one involving Lolita warrant increased scrutiny? Animal care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

28m
Oct 12, 2023
Hanging It High Doesn't Make It Browse

Providing adequate browse for species that specialize in such diet items can be a huge challenge for any zoological institution due to availability, cost, and quality. While many species adapt to the higher cell wall and lower nutrient levels found in grass hay and quality commercial diets designed to supplement the perishable nutrients that fresh browse provides, there are physiological, behavioral, and health-related tradeoffs to feeding animals foodstuffs that vary significantly from what they'd eat in a suitable, healthy wild habitat. Nutritionist, Dr. Katie Kerr has years of experience working with large and diverse animal collections in major US zoos. She discusses her affinity for problem-solving and the ways zoo animal nutrition has improved and where we ought to be headed to further enhance this major component of animal well-being. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

31m
Oct 05, 2023
Wildlens

With a family legacy of rewilding the Eastern Cape region of South Africa, Paul Gardiner has always had a close relationship with Africa's Wildlife and an affinity for filming. Together with his business partner, media executive and content producer Barbara Bellini, they have launched a new content platform on YouTube called Wildlens https://wildlens.tv. This channel in beta testing is designed for those budding storytellers working in the field protecting, preserving, studying, and educating others about Nature and the amazing creatures found in it. Their stated mission is to unite people and animals, ignite engagement, and grow an enormous community passionate about our planet! Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

31m
Sep 28, 2023
A Lifetime of Saving Cheetahs

Starting her career in a more traditional zoo setting in the 1970's, Dr. Laurie Marker has dedicated her professional life to preserving cheetahs in the wild. After what is now Namibia gained independence from South Africa in 1990, she moved to the southern African nation to help reduce the hundreds of cheetahs killed by ranchers and farmers each year. Through the foundation she founded and leads as Executive Director, Cheetah Conservation Fund works to study, preserve, rescue, and most recently, reintroduce wild cheetahs. Dr. Marker describes her team's efforts in the cheetah translocation and rewinding effort underway in India, whose subspecies of cheetah went extinct in the 1950's. Dr. Marker invites zoo professionals and others interested in conserving cheetahs to attend one of her many events scheduled during her US tour underway now. Animal care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

33m
Sep 21, 2023
Enrichment By Any Other Name

Enrichment is a frequently tossed around term but what actually is it?  How is it being used today and is that application appropriate or even effective?  We are on location at the AZA https://www.aza.org annual conference hosted by Columbus Zoo & Aquarium https://www.columbuszoo.org with applied animal behavior experts Chuck Tompkins and Erin Ivory to discuss the current use of enrichment, how to better maximize its positive impact on animal well-being in managed care and more wild scenarios, and why the term may be a misnomer to cover for the collective historical reservations by some within the zoological space opposed to the idea of "training 'wild' animals tricks."  Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

33m
Sep 14, 2023
World's First Female Conservation Cyber Tracker

As the executive director of the Community Conservation Fund for Africa or CCFA https://www.ccfa.africa, Taryn Gillson works to help build community development through funding generated by ecotourism. Their goal is to assist communities participating in and benefiting from conservation. CCFA is the foundation of the ecotourism leading experts at Mantis following their merger with hotel management giant, Accor. Even more interesting is Taryn's status as a cyber tracker https://cybertracker.org evaluator, the first female in the world to earn such status from the conservation software organization. Cyber tracker's original goal was to preserve and celebrate the dying science and skill of animal tracking for use in research and conservation. Animal Care Software https://animalcaresoftware.com

27m
Sep 07, 2023