Qiological Podcast
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The 1960’s and 70’s saw an explosion of alternative health and lifestyle practices appear at the edges of culture. It was a time ripe with possibility and fraught with peril, after all there was a war going on. The kind where men were drafted. As with any troubled time, there is also opportunity. Because as things fall apart, they also fall together. The guest of this episode, Stuart Watts, he had a bent for spiritual practice, a curiosity about health beyond the mainstream, and an adventurous and entrepreneurial spirit. The kind of spirit that did not just see opportunities, but created them. Listen into this conversation as we dig into the early days of how you’d go about learning acupuncture, the history of the first schools, and how troublesome ‘wu fa’ teachers can teach you a lot about what you need to know, even if the experience is unpleasant.
Change happens through time, it unfolds within the rhythmic inhale and exhale, it expresses through lunar and solar cycles, it follows the arc of development, fruition, and decline. There are recognizable pathways and markers that arise within what is mostly a non-linear experience of life. Daniel Atchison-Nevel used to skip school and hang out at the library where he found himself in the company of old Russian Jewish mystics, their stories and tattered copies of the Dao De Jing. Not a bad place to begin, if your destiny holds the potential to include the practice of Chinese medicine. Listen into this discussion of how undifferentiated wholeness ratchets down into the world of yin and yang, the constant interplay of fate and destiny, the vital importance of of being able to recognize the impulse towards healing within dysfunction, and how the most profound learning he received on the Extraordinary Vessels came from a man with whom he shared no common language.
Alchemy sounds like magic. It sounds like magic because it involves the transmuting of something coarse and without value to something refined and of worth. But really, there is nothing magical about it. It’s the process of finding a corner of the world you want to work on, and applying some elbow grease to make it better. In this conversation with Leta Herman we explore the first four of the nine palaces of Alchemy. Which is to say, the nuts and bolts of working with the everyday world, because before you can work on the higher levels. You need to build your foundation and capacity by first gaining mastery with everyday life. Listen into this discussion of spirit, matter and why matter matters.
You’ve probably heard about family lineage types of acupuncture from Asia. Here in the West, acupuncture is still a bit of a newcomer to the medical scene, but it has been around long enough that we are beginning to see second generation practitioners. In this conversation we have a father son team, Joe and Sam Audette. Joe is a medical doctor and has deeply studied and helps to teach the work of Kiiko Matsumoto. And in this conversation you’ll get all kinds of helpful tips on areas of the abdomen to pay attention to, along with Joe’s ability to think about and use both Eastern and Western physiology. Listen into this discussion on pursuing medicine across several different cultures, why it is important to be grounded in the fundamentals and how developing a sensitivity for our patients is essential in the work we do
It was challenging enough for me in the 1990’s to set myself on the path of learning acupuncture. and by then, we had established schools and clear pathways to licensure and a livelihood. But back in the early days it took a rare kind of individual with a big spirit to seek out the knowledge required to learn acupuncture. The guest of this episode, Ted Kaptchuk, is one of those explorative pioneers that headed East because he was sure he’d find something, even though he’d no idea of how he was going to find it. Listen into this conversation on the revolutionary spirit took Ted from New York to San Francisco to Taiwan and then Macao. The twists and turned involved learning the medicine, and how the Web That Has No Weaver came into being.
Medicinal mushrooms have made their way into the everyday lives of the “old one-hundred names,” us common folk. Formerly rare and precious substances like Ling Zhi and Dong Chong Xia Cao are now cultivated and readily available for people like you and me. Considered to be “higher” level medicinals, these are substances considered more for promoting wellbeing, than treating illness. Which brings us to the topic of “Tonic Herbs” and Yang Sheng, the nourishment of life. In this conversation with Mason Taylor we discuss the differences between “Tonic Herbs” and the use of herbal medicine to treat illness. We touch on Daoist practices, the fundamental role of Jing, and the challenge and opportunity of running your own business that allows you to explore something that is of vital personal interest. Listen into this discussion of mushrooms, longevity and the search for authentic meaning.
Clinical experience and results are paramount in developing skill as a Chinese medicine practitioner. Theory should serve practice, not the other way around. Specializing in certain disease categories like dermatology can accelerate your learning process. In this conversation with Mazin Al-Khafaji we explore how he’s spent the past few decades using Chinese medicine to treat difficult skin conditions like eczema and psoriasis. His study of Chinese medicine and unexpected collaboration with conventional doctors on eczema trials added fuel to the fire of his interest in dermatology. Since then, he’s dedicated his work to researching and treating recalcitrant skin disorders, and teaching others who have an interest in this speciality. Listen into this discussion on approaching and working with seemingly treatment-resistant skin conditions, and learn how the power of Chinese herbal medicine helps people not only with troublesome dermatological problems, but auto-immune issues as well.
We are here in the midst of winter cold going into the Spring Festival— the new Chinese Lunar year. It might seem strange to consider Spring as beginning in the deep middle of dark and cold, but all beginnings start in the dark. They begin before they can be seen. Qiological is delighted to have Gregory Done back with his perspective on the coming Wood Dragon year. This 12 year Earthly cycle of animals began anew with the Metal Rat in 2020, and we know how that shifted our world in profound ways. This past year of the Water Rabbit, as Gregory suggested, would be weird— and indeed it was. LIsten in as we review the Rabbit and consider the energies and symbols of the coming Wood Dragon, which begins a new Heavenly Stems cycle. Get ready to ride the Dragon, and know what to pack and what to leave behind.
In the mid 70’s there were four English language books on acupuncture. Which wasn’t much to go on. But for the people that started learning acupuncture in those days. It was enough to get started. Suzuki Roshi is famous for saying “in the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts mind there are few.” Which is another way to say being young and foolish is not a bad way to get started with things, because you don’t know what you can’t not do. and exploring new territory brings its own satisfaction. In this conversation with Peter Deadman we revisit the early days of when acupuncture was emerging into the mainstream culture of Great Britain. Listen into this discussion of cultural change, personal exploration, the structure of TCM and how a copy of bootlegged clinical notes helped Peter to learn the medicine, and then in turn share it with the rest of us.
There are aspects of East Asian medicine that touch on the frameworks of Buddhism, Daoism, Shamanism, and Alchemy. What’s more the lenses of philosophy, psychology, spirituality, and cosmology also can come into play when we consider the nature of the channels and points. Touching on existential questions and potentials for healing transformation, our guest in this episode, Zac Lui, discusses the Five Phases and channel dynamics from a perspective you’ve likely not considered. And touches on the cultivation of consciousness and how it’s helpful to rid ourselves of limiting beliefs. Listen to this conversation that offers a shamaic and esoteric perspective regarding the integration of different paradigms into your understanding and practice of medicine.
Meditation is seen as an ancient panacea to modern problems. Mindfulness and equanimity will help with your productivity at work, relationships at home, reduce your need for certain medication and in general make you a better version of yourself. But the inward turned gaze often enough does not reveal a tranquil garden, but a junkyard. The promise of stillness and equanimity evaporates in the onslaught of our unruly human minds. In this conversation with Leo Lok, we investigate how mediation can be a source of greater suffering and contribute to mental illness. Listen into this discussion of meditation as repetitive stress injury, misconceptions about self/not-self, and how some core tenants have changed their meanings in the translation from the original Poli.
Pain is a helpful signal when it works properly as a warning signal. But when that signal goes awry, it dramatically changes a person’s life and also affects their close relationships. Jonathan Riemer has been researching chronic pain in children and he’s found there are social, neurological and psychological aspects to pain and its treatment. Listen into this conversation on illness and how it functions within the family systems, disconnections between the mind and body, and the importance of opening the mind to possibilities.
The curious thing about having someone ask me a question and engage in a conversation of inquiry is that I hear myself saying things that are usually hidden just under the surface of habit and belief. In this episode the guest of the podcast is me. and the host steering the boat… it’s Rick Gold. if you don’t know Rick, listen to episode 323. He’s had a hand in hundreds of people learning our medicine. Listen in for a discussion of the influence that shop class has had on me over the years, some of the nudges that shapeshifted my life, and how a panic attack turned out to be a birthday present.
We all have some kind of call to follow medicine, otherwise we wouldn’t be in the trade. If you answer that call today, you’ve got a profession you can work yourself into. But back in the late 70’s early 80’s, the profession was still finding its footing. And if you’re like the guest of this episode, Z’ev Rosenberg, having an established professional track was less of a concern than following a hunger he had for natural methods for restoring and maintaining health. Listen into this conversation on rock music, synchronicity, the Yi Jing, and how a feisty attitude can take you a long way.
The vast wealth, and it is a wealth, of writing on Chinese medicine is in Chinese. Granted, at this moment in time there is enough material that has made its way into English that you wouldn’t be able to read all of it in one lifetime. That’s far cry from the handful of books of 40 years ago. Still, the history and perspectives that have found their way down to the present in Chinese. It’s like an alternative universe. Maybe several of them. In this episode with Michael Brown, Will Cerveles, Eran Even, and Ivan Zalava, we have a discussion not just on translation, but more importantly the varied perspectives of practitioners whose work others thought was interesting enough to print and re-print through the decades and even centuries. These guys are the new wave of practitioner/translators and they are fired up about what they’re discovering. And keen on sharing it with the rest of us. Listen in for a lively discussion on the perspectives of some doctors you’ll only meet through the written word.
Some people dream of being influencers and social media stars. They are looking for a glamorous life in front of the camera. Not so for the guest of today’s episode who first published a Facebook video as a way to help support her students. It was a complete shock when someone from another country wrote to tell her how they appreciated the help in learning medicine. In this conversation with Clara Cohen we reflect on how she got started with her YouTube channel, Acupro Academy. It’s been an accidental journey that’s helped her to be of assistance to so many and given her an opportunity to discover how to use social media as a force for good. Listen into this conversation on grit, persistence, exploration and the connective power of a virtual community.
We practice traditional medicine, or do we? Because Chinese medicine has roots and writings that go back into misty history, it’s easy to imagine we practice much like your average Qing or Ming doctor. But the truth is, the way practitioners worked even just a hundred years ago would be quite foreign to the standards of today. In this conversation with Eric Karchmer we explore some of the themes and historic insights from his new book Prescriptions for Virtuosity, The Post Colonial Struggle of Chinese Medicine. I’m serious when I tell you— it’s going to blow your mind. Listen into this discussion of how Chinese medicine became the slow medicine, the brilliant innovation of the early textbooks, and how it is that what you think is the ancient bones of our medicine, is in many ways a new innovation. One wrought not through the communists stripping out the shamanistic practices, but rather by Chinese doctors themselves figuring where they stood in relation to the potency and power of modern biomedicine as it changed the landscape of economics, power and practice.
In this conversation, our guest Efrem Korngold said, “the definition of a good paradigm is that you can apply it effectively to new problems.” You know how sometimes you hear something and it stops you dead in your tracks, it rings true in a way that you can feel in your bones, muscles and blood. I heard this and felt the truth of it. What’s more was his further comment that Chinese medicine; it’s good paradigm. Listen into this conversation on the early days of Chinese medicine emerging into the mainstream in California, the way fearlessness helps to develop you as an acupuncturist and why imagination is so vitally important to the craftsperson.
“MY PO MADE THE DECISION” I’m usually skeptical about most explanations of the “Spirit” of the five Zang viscera. Not that I don’t indulge speculation myself, I most certainly do. But given these ideas come down to us from another time, language, and culture. Given they’ve traveled through through the millennia I’m mightily reluctant to stake a claim on what the ancients might have intended. That said, the guest of today’s conversation Karine Kedar said the above quote towards the beginning of our discussion and it landed with an in-the-bones sense of “that’s right.” Which is an interesting place to start when the topic is polyvagal theory and East Asian medicine doesn’t even recognize a nervous system. This conversation comes with a warning label. Probably best not listened to while driving or if your attention needs to be focused out into the world. There is a notable inward falling of attention as we traverse the landscape of the polyvagal not so much talking about it, but rather strolling through the landscape it offers. Listen in for a felt sense of parasympathetic polyvagal tone, a possible way the Spirit of the five Zang might be involved, how the interplay of the nervous and hormonal systems helps create social bonds and the pre-heaven influence of epigenetics.
You don’t need to practice acupuncture for very long to realize that people frequently slip into a deep state of quietude and repose. Often enough, they come out of a session with a completely different look to their eyes, they move slower and with a more integrated coordination, they’re focused less on the noise in their life, and more on the potency of the present. In this conversation with John Myerson, we explore acupuncture and non-ordinary states of consciousness. This was part of a PhD dissertation he did in Psychology, but what’s more interesting is how he has evolved this exploration into his clinical work. A practice which looks quite different from his original inquiry of using needles and music to induce non-ordinary states. Listen into this discussion of trance, leaning into the yin influence that comes from power under and how getting out of the way just might be the best way to help others.
I’ve often enough equated the word Alchemy with Magic. Hoping for something that would quickly and painlessly transform the troubles dogging me. Perhaps this is possible with magic, but alchemy, that is a process of preparation, distillation and attentiveness. It’s a undertaking that requires a kind of containment and the transformative power of time is a key ingredient. Maybe not unlike the process of learning medicine by practicing medicine. In this conversation with Leta Herman we discuss alchemy as a mindset, as a perceptual filter that allows for interacting with points in a way that allows for patients to tell and hear their story more fully. Listen into this discussion of transformation, perspective and presence in how we engage and listen.
It’s surprising the unexpected paths we trod that lead us to our destiny. Especially when you’re headed into a profession or line of work that does not yet exist. In this conversation with Jake Fratkin, we meander through tales of back pain, bitter herbs, beginner's luck and crooked judges. We reflect on the joys and uncertainties of following your fascination to wherever it leads, and making a go of life on the edge of the establishment. Listen into this discussion on blackjack statistics, monkey behavior, apprenticeships with Chicago masters and being involved with a call to standards in an emerging profession. Jake took an eccentric path to Chinese medicine in an era when it was still a fringe pursuit. It would seem you write your own destiny when following your interests and curiosity, and keep on going.
There are several foundational texts that lay the groundwork for Chinese herbal medicine. Usually when you think about the Shang Han Lun, you’d immediately think of herbs. And when you think about the various herbs that make up the classic prescriptions, you’ll realize they all have a flavor, direction and character. In essence— a kind of qi. In this conversation with Maya Suzuki we discuss the dynamic of Gui Zhi Tang. How it leaves palpable traces in the body. And how to use acupuncture in a way that speaks to the action of each of the individual herbs, and the overall character of the formula. Listen into this conversation on the character of qi, inquisitiveness in the clinic, the trouble (and benefit) of not being able to remember everything, and how using our hands and attention helps to create a stream of attention that allows us know in the moment what to do next.
Confused by all the diet advice out there? Me too! Seems like there's always a new fad telling us what to eat– or not. I'm a fan of the 80/20 principle and I’ve been wondering if that might apply to diet, especially if you’re using diet as a way to improve health. I chew this over with acupuncturist and nutritionist Brenda Le and see if we can untangle some of the noise and drama around food. We’ll discuss the intertwinement of food and emotion, dealing with shame, listening to your body's signals, and more. Brenda suggests just 4 key guidelines: eat close to nature, make it yourself, plan ahead, and chew well. We also get into what to avoid - like diet cults and over-researching isolated studies. Listen into this conversation on age-old wisdom, self compassion, and making friends with food by finding your 20% for 80% success. Food should feel good!
We have plans, but our destiny usually is not found in the maps we make of the world. It shows up in unexpected, random and often unguarded moments. There’s a lot we “do.” It does not come from knowing, but we can spin up a story in retrospect. In this conversation with John Nieters we notice how our work in time tends to simplify. That our plans and often enough lead to an unexpected potently changeable moment. We explore the East and West of blood stasis, and curiosities of the circulatory system. Along with noticing how strange it can be when you notice something everyone else seems to be missing. Listen into this discussion of potent paired points, poker, Zhuang Zi, real estate and attending to the smooth circulation of blood.
Ghost points. Read those words and let the sound echo into your head, your heart and body. Ghost points. Just the words carry an energy. An energy of spirit, of embodiment, or not. The words suggest something of the spirit that can go astray. Like a decision to never let a particular bad experience ever happen again, or on the other side, the addictive desire to recreate again and again something of the sublime. In this conversation with Ivan Zalava we consider the realm of spirit, ghosts, embodiment and psycho-emotive states that can generate a reality of their own.. Listen into this discussion of memes and slogans as modern “possession”, trance states for shifting consciousness and a Chinese medicine view of ADHD.
Not all journeys have a destination– at least, not in the beginning. In the beginning you’re opening to options, surveying the landscape, getting a feel for who you are in the territory. It's the Open part of “Open, Close, Pivot.” Rick Gold, one of the founders of the Pacific College of Oriental Medicine did not start out to found an acupuncture school. He started out aiming at being a hermit in backwoods Kentucky. But as with most things in life, where we start and we end up– it can be surprising. Listen into this discussion of inquisitiveness, and how following something you find interesting will take you to places you didn’t know existed. And you just might help a lot of other people along the way.
Li Shi Zhen and Sun Si Miao, they shared an interest in alchemy. Often enough in our clinical work, patients will describe what happened with them as being magical, but as practitioners we know its not magic, its medicine. But it’s a medicine that works outside the parameters of Western thought, and the consensus of settled science. In this conversation with Peter Firebrace we explore being a Zhen Ren, a True Human, and internal alchemical practice. The journey to Emptiness through the three Dan Tian, and the process of returning to source, unity and simplicity. Listen into this conversation on the cultivation of Authenticity that goes from simple to complex and back again to simple.
Chinese medicine looks to the perspectives of the past to understand the unfolding present. And for sure, there are threads of connection and perspective that come down to us through the curious tides of history. At the same time, there is this unique moment. What we hold, what we discover, these are yin yang aspects of how to make sense of a medicine patinated with history and lore. In this conversation with Volker Scheid we discuss continuity and change in Chinese medicine. And the starting point is not the deconstructivism so popular in our present moment, but rather the inquiry of Chinese poets in the 12th century. Listen into this discussion of living and dead traditions, the influence of Tang poetry, and the position of Chinese medicine in the modern world.
I still remember the moment when I realized that the character for Listen in traditional written Chinese was composed of the characters for Ears, Eyes, and Heart. Twenty two little strokes that unambiguously describe what is required to genuinely listen. Deborah Woolf has spent the past year teaching a course on basic Chinese for East Asian medicine practitioners. And while the content of her course is of interest to me, in this conversation what I’m more focused on is what it is that she’s learned in the past year from teaching this material. Listen into this conversation on the challenges of translation, the multidimensional nature of Chinese medicine, and key learnings and questions from the past year.
